<![CDATA[We Kid You Not Childfree Forums

<![CDATA[We Kid You Not Childfree Forums - All Forums]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/ Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:52:44 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[Happy Birthday Jo!]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3204 Sat, 31 Jul 2010 05:40:32 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3204
Balloons

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]]> <![CDATA[CF on Forum Radio Show]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3203 Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:45:05 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3203 http://www.kqed.org/radio/programs/forum/]]> http://www.kqed.org/radio/programs/forum/]]> <![CDATA[Fall 2010 TV Season]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3202 Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:41:56 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3202
Blue Bloods with Tom Selleck looks good
The Defenders with my boyfriend Jerry O'Connell - not too sure
Hawaii Five-0 looks dumb - might go the way of Bionic Woman from last season
No Ordinary Family - not sure yet
L&O Los Angeles - definitely going to watch

Are there any shows you're looking forward to/not looking forward to?]]>
Blue Bloods with Tom Selleck looks good
The Defenders with my boyfriend Jerry O'Connell - not too sure
Hawaii Five-0 looks dumb - might go the way of Bionic Woman from last season
No Ordinary Family - not sure yet
L&O Los Angeles - definitely going to watch

Are there any shows you're looking forward to/not looking forward to?]]> <![CDATA[Margo on family dynamics]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3201 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:30:22 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3201

***

Dear Margo: My husband, "Rick," dislikes his family, and I can understand why; they are not particularly likeable. They seem to like him, however, because despite his not wanting anything to do with them (he will not return phone calls, etc.), they still call fairly regularly, send Christmas gifts and visit annually. The problem is, my husband refuses to deal with them and I get stuck. I am always the one who answers the phone, so I take their calls, talk for a while and then make excuses for my husband. (He's not here, he's in the shower, etc.) The biggest pain for me is when they come to visit. I cook, shop and clean — all without any help from them or my husband. He simply refuses to help.

Well, they're coming again, and this time I collared my husband and told him he either needs to step up and deal with them, or write, explaining his reasons for not wanting to be in contact. He told me it's my problem — that I am "encouraging them" — and he plans to continue ignoring them. He thinks eventually they will get the hint. No, they won't. However, I don't feel it's my place to tell them to take a hike. — Distressed and Frustrated

Dear Dis: This is quite a crazy situation. "Rick" could easily be the poster boy for passive-aggressive behavior, and I don't know what I would call his emotionally tone deaf parents. You are enabling this weird family dynamic, however, so I suggest you take your husband's suggestion, uncomfortable though it may be. Write your in-laws (do not phone; tough talk is best written), and say that things have been phony for too long and you wish their son would deal with this, but he won't, so it is your sad duty to lay the cards on the table and state that he wishes no further contact with them. Should they be as impervious as you say and show up anyway, I would not lift a finger. Ten years of this farce is long enough. Actually, it's too long. — Margo, reluctantly]]>

***

Dear Margo: My husband, "Rick," dislikes his family, and I can understand why; they are not particularly likeable. They seem to like him, however, because despite his not wanting anything to do with them (he will not return phone calls, etc.), they still call fairly regularly, send Christmas gifts and visit annually. The problem is, my husband refuses to deal with them and I get stuck. I am always the one who answers the phone, so I take their calls, talk for a while and then make excuses for my husband. (He's not here, he's in the shower, etc.) The biggest pain for me is when they come to visit. I cook, shop and clean — all without any help from them or my husband. He simply refuses to help.

Well, they're coming again, and this time I collared my husband and told him he either needs to step up and deal with them, or write, explaining his reasons for not wanting to be in contact. He told me it's my problem — that I am "encouraging them" — and he plans to continue ignoring them. He thinks eventually they will get the hint. No, they won't. However, I don't feel it's my place to tell them to take a hike. — Distressed and Frustrated

Dear Dis: This is quite a crazy situation. "Rick" could easily be the poster boy for passive-aggressive behavior, and I don't know what I would call his emotionally tone deaf parents. You are enabling this weird family dynamic, however, so I suggest you take your husband's suggestion, uncomfortable though it may be. Write your in-laws (do not phone; tough talk is best written), and say that things have been phony for too long and you wish their son would deal with this, but he won't, so it is your sad duty to lay the cards on the table and state that he wishes no further contact with them. Should they be as impervious as you say and show up anyway, I would not lift a finger. Ten years of this farce is long enough. Actually, it's too long. — Margo, reluctantly]]> <![CDATA[CF cruise suggestion]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3200 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:26:41 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3200 Finally I do. Banana-1

My husband and I just returned from our honeymoon where for half of it we cruised aboard the Royal Clipper.
http://www.starclippers.com there is information, virtual tours, and a video on the page. (for some reason the site is saying under construction, but when I scroll to USA it works just fine)

I highly recommend this type of cruise if you 1) like cruising, and 2) don't want to be surrounded by kids. Those were the exact reasons we opted for a clipper ship as opposed to a more mainstream cruise line.

There are 3 ships in the fleet with Royal being the largest. At maximum it can hold about 200, but we were told it rarely gets over 180. There were about 130 people on our trip. Guess how many were kids? Less than 10. 1 was aged 6 and we saw him about 4 times in 12 days, 1 was 11 and he was a pain, the rest were teens and were no problem whatsoever.

It's a very relaxing and personalized form of cruising. No lines, everyone knows your name, there are activities you can do that larger cruises can't(such as swimming off the back dock or climbing the mast), and there are zero activities that interest kids. No waterslide, no movie theater, no arcade, nothing.

However, If you are a huge party person and love nightlife, dancing, drinking, and shows that the big cruise lines offer, Star Clippers is not for you.

Anyway just thought I'd share since I know everyone is eager to vacation away from screaming kids.]]> <![CDATA[The Immigration "Question"]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3199 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:00:31 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3199
In the US, I am in small minority on this issue, it seems. I'll explain my views and hope you will tell me yours. I think the whole thing is totally absurd. If you think of a map of the world, and how humanity evolved and fanned out, we see that we began in Africa, moved north and east into Europe, then north and west into Asia, and down through the various island groups of the Pacific to Australia and New Zealand.

More or less at the same time, people crossed the Bering land bridge to North America and worked South through Central and South America. So the first "Americans" were "Asians" who used to be "Africans" and so on. So at that pre-Columbian point, all continents had their first humans in place.

Now along came the Spaniards, who although they did visit North America, concentrated primarily on South America. So Spaniards were in South America before Northern Europeans were anywhere in the Americas. They wiped out indigenous populations while mixing with them. Most current South Americans are mestizo right now.

Then came the Northern Europeans who wiped out North American indigenous populations, ignoring their nations, treaties, councils, tribes and so on. The governments in place for centuries were ignored, and a mostly white, Northern European culture took over, mostly not mixing with them but rather confining them away from white populations. The white Europeans eventually reached the Pacific and took over all the indigenous lands and called it the USA.

Now, they are telling southern Americans (Mexicans and others) to stay out. Out of an area we stole AFTER the indigenous Americans of South America and the earlier-arriving and better-assimilated Spaniards were already here?

I don't see people from south of here as trespassers. We stole everything, and now we're telling them they can't be here. What? Are you serious? Shut up!

So that's my take. I'd like to hear others.]]>
In the US, I am in small minority on this issue, it seems. I'll explain my views and hope you will tell me yours. I think the whole thing is totally absurd. If you think of a map of the world, and how humanity evolved and fanned out, we see that we began in Africa, moved north and east into Europe, then north and west into Asia, and down through the various island groups of the Pacific to Australia and New Zealand.

More or less at the same time, people crossed the Bering land bridge to North America and worked South through Central and South America. So the first "Americans" were "Asians" who used to be "Africans" and so on. So at that pre-Columbian point, all continents had their first humans in place.

Now along came the Spaniards, who although they did visit North America, concentrated primarily on South America. So Spaniards were in South America before Northern Europeans were anywhere in the Americas. They wiped out indigenous populations while mixing with them. Most current South Americans are mestizo right now.

Then came the Northern Europeans who wiped out North American indigenous populations, ignoring their nations, treaties, councils, tribes and so on. The governments in place for centuries were ignored, and a mostly white, Northern European culture took over, mostly not mixing with them but rather confining them away from white populations. The white Europeans eventually reached the Pacific and took over all the indigenous lands and called it the USA.

Now, they are telling southern Americans (Mexicans and others) to stay out. Out of an area we stole AFTER the indigenous Americans of South America and the earlier-arriving and better-assimilated Spaniards were already here?

I don't see people from south of here as trespassers. We stole everything, and now we're telling them they can't be here. What? Are you serious? Shut up!

So that's my take. I'd like to hear others.]]> <![CDATA[Childfree = Nihilistic?]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3198 Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:32:29 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3198
He suggested that being childfree is nihilistic. I'm not sure if he's using that word in the correct context but I assume from his comment that he is a religious person and he has children.

Here's his comment:

Quote:Granted that there are many kids out there who don't have descent parents and they are in for trouble and pain. I just think that its a bit nihilistic to not want to attempt to fulfill one of life's primary functions; to reproduce and pass on your genes. There are other aspects I could consider in childlessness but I won't travel that road here.

He's assuming that I want to continue my lineage and carry on the family name with my DNA, which I don't. I have absolutely no desire to live on through my kids and/or grandkids. This type of thinking is selfish and self centred - IMO.

I responded with one of my favourite quotes:

Quote:"Those of us who don't have children, we either have to live without a legacy, or find something else. I'm really much more interested in living than I am in leaving anything behind." ~ Anthony Geary

Anyway, just thinking out loud.]]>
He suggested that being childfree is nihilistic. I'm not sure if he's using that word in the correct context but I assume from his comment that he is a religious person and he has children.

Here's his comment:

Quote:Granted that there are many kids out there who don't have descent parents and they are in for trouble and pain. I just think that its a bit nihilistic to not want to attempt to fulfill one of life's primary functions; to reproduce and pass on your genes. There are other aspects I could consider in childlessness but I won't travel that road here.

Quote:"Those of us who don't have children, we either have to live without a legacy, or find something else. I'm really much more interested in living than I am in leaving anything behind." ~ Anthony Geary

Anyway, just thinking out loud.]]> <![CDATA[Editorial on children in the library]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3197 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:47:20 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3197 July 27, 2010

Over the past 40 years, I have been one of the library profession’s biggest advocates for children’s services in public libraries.

My advocacy for making children a budgetary priority has nothing to do with children and everything to do with the library. Quite simply children are the catalysts for getting the whole community involved in a library. I have seen this proven over and over again. If you want a successful library, you need to cater to children.

It’s a very important topic. In fact no topic is more important for public libraries right now. As a result, I will devote more posts to it in the future.

Today, however, the topic is children, pure and simple. Children are unruly, loud, frenetic, demanding, obstreperous, cantankerous, and cacophonous. They have not mastered or even learned the boundaries of civilized adult behavior.

As a result, many adults prefer the Hallmark concept of children (aren’t they cute) to the Dennis the Menace reality of children (aren’t they unruly). In certain places like a church, a hospital, or a library, the unruliness of children can be acutely problematic.

Sometimes this unruliness requires a bit of patience and a sense of humor. This past Sunday, a toddler interrupted Father Leo’s sermon with loud wailing. I counted five older adults who turned around and looked scornfully at the child’s mother. Father Leo saved the day by smoothly steering his sermon toward the concept of prayer. “Prayer takes many forms,” he intoned, “from the quiet reflective thoughts of the monastic hermit to the loud wailing of an infant. In this case the infant in the 3rd row is petitioning God to bring my sermon to closure. The child’s prayer has been answered. Now let us all thank God.”

But many adults are not nearly as tolerant as Father Leo. Many of these adults are library users who go to the library for some peace and quiet, and here is where a clash can occur. Children engage in several distracting activities including …wailing, whining, running, jumping, and pulling books off the shelves. This can be very disruptive to adult patrons who are trying to read, study, write, or sleep.

As a result, some libraries have rules prohibiting children from certain parts of the adult library. A couple of days ago when I was relating a story about my two year old granddaughter Sophia and her proclivity to make brilliant book selections for me, I casually mentioned that the two of us had been cordially asked by a librarian to leave the adult periodicals room of our local library, a library which I absolutely love. Apparently, they have an unposted rule that pre-school children are not allowed in that sanctum sanctorum. I was embarrassed, felt badly, and never returned to the periodicals room with a child in tow again. I do respect and understand the reason for the rule.

In the comment section of that post, a very, very interesting issue evolved. Unwinders went from discussing my book review of Forbidden Fruit to discussing the issue of children in the adult area of the library. There was an irony to this debate because I had quoted a passage from Forbidden Fruit in which it was stated that there was a time when women were prohibited from entering “male only” parts of the library because women were considered frivolous and distracting.

The unwinder debate started with this comment:

* “Will, I am really disappointed to learn you are one of the problem modern adults who think that the library manners are not meant for YOUR granddaughter. I may be saying good-bye to this blog as I don’t keep company with those who think that achieving quiet libraries is only done by having OTHER people’s children and grandchildren follow rules. I compliment that library for HAVING rules and for those librarians having the chutzpah to stand up to a librarian. Please, Will, say you won’t do this again. Ever.”

While, this comment tends to be rather critical of me, there is much in it that I absolutely agree with, and I’m very pleased the unwinder had the courage to post it. Parents, grandparents, and nannies should be responsible for their children. I was at fault for taking Sophia into the periodicals room but the library should have posted the rules.

That comment then led to this comment from another unwinder:

* “Why should kids be excluded from any part of a public library? They are part of the public, and will be voting on library bills all too soon. This is a public library, not a college library where your argument might make sense. This is rank discrimination against kids. Yes, kids are noisy. So are a lot of the adult population, especially, hard of hearing adults. And I see legal issues too. Remember several years ago when a homeless guy successfully sued a public library in the east I think. New Jersey? The librarians had tried to keep him out because he looked and smelled rotten as I recall. I’ll take a little kid dressed in a decent way over a homeless guy with likely mental issues. But the law says we have to have the homeless guy. I just saw your next comment. I think one reason they don’t have the rule posted is likely they know one good lawsuit by a disgruntled adult with a kid will be the end of that rule. It is POLITE of Will to avoid the periodical room.”

I can also see the merit in this comment and am equally glad that the unwinder had the courage to post it. This is the type of dialog that really motivates me to do this blog everyday. Thanks, unwinders.

Question of the day: Which side of the issue are you on? Is there a middle ground? Have at it.

Comments here:
http://willmanley.com/2010/07/27/will-un...http://willmanley.com/2010/07/27/will-unwound-185-obstreperous-cantankerous-cacophonous-and-necessary-by-wi]]> July 27, 2010

Over the past 40 years, I have been one of the library profession’s biggest advocates for children’s services in public libraries.

My advocacy for making children a budgetary priority has nothing to do with children and everything to do with the library. Quite simply children are the catalysts for getting the whole community involved in a library. I have seen this proven over and over again. If you want a successful library, you need to cater to children.

It’s a very important topic. In fact no topic is more important for public libraries right now. As a result, I will devote more posts to it in the future.

Today, however, the topic is children, pure and simple. Children are unruly, loud, frenetic, demanding, obstreperous, cantankerous, and cacophonous. They have not mastered or even learned the boundaries of civilized adult behavior.

As a result, many adults prefer the Hallmark concept of children (aren’t they cute) to the Dennis the Menace reality of children (aren’t they unruly). In certain places like a church, a hospital, or a library, the unruliness of children can be acutely problematic.

Sometimes this unruliness requires a bit of patience and a sense of humor. This past Sunday, a toddler interrupted Father Leo’s sermon with loud wailing. I counted five older adults who turned around and looked scornfully at the child’s mother. Father Leo saved the day by smoothly steering his sermon toward the concept of prayer. “Prayer takes many forms,” he intoned, “from the quiet reflective thoughts of the monastic hermit to the loud wailing of an infant. In this case the infant in the 3rd row is petitioning God to bring my sermon to closure. The child’s prayer has been answered. Now let us all thank God.”

But many adults are not nearly as tolerant as Father Leo. Many of these adults are library users who go to the library for some peace and quiet, and here is where a clash can occur. Children engage in several distracting activities including …wailing, whining, running, jumping, and pulling books off the shelves. This can be very disruptive to adult patrons who are trying to read, study, write, or sleep.

As a result, some libraries have rules prohibiting children from certain parts of the adult library. A couple of days ago when I was relating a story about my two year old granddaughter Sophia and her proclivity to make brilliant book selections for me, I casually mentioned that the two of us had been cordially asked by a librarian to leave the adult periodicals room of our local library, a library which I absolutely love. Apparently, they have an unposted rule that pre-school children are not allowed in that sanctum sanctorum. I was embarrassed, felt badly, and never returned to the periodicals room with a child in tow again. I do respect and understand the reason for the rule.

In the comment section of that post, a very, very interesting issue evolved. Unwinders went from discussing my book review of Forbidden Fruit to discussing the issue of children in the adult area of the library. There was an irony to this debate because I had quoted a passage from Forbidden Fruit in which it was stated that there was a time when women were prohibited from entering “male only” parts of the library because women were considered frivolous and distracting.

The unwinder debate started with this comment:

* “Will, I am really disappointed to learn you are one of the problem modern adults who think that the library manners are not meant for YOUR granddaughter. I may be saying good-bye to this blog as I don’t keep company with those who think that achieving quiet libraries is only done by having OTHER people’s children and grandchildren follow rules. I compliment that library for HAVING rules and for those librarians having the chutzpah to stand up to a librarian. Please, Will, say you won’t do this again. Ever.”

While, this comment tends to be rather critical of me, there is much in it that I absolutely agree with, and I’m very pleased the unwinder had the courage to post it. Parents, grandparents, and nannies should be responsible for their children. I was at fault for taking Sophia into the periodicals room but the library should have posted the rules.

That comment then led to this comment from another unwinder:

* “Why should kids be excluded from any part of a public library? They are part of the public, and will be voting on library bills all too soon. This is a public library, not a college library where your argument might make sense. This is rank discrimination against kids. Yes, kids are noisy. So are a lot of the adult population, especially, hard of hearing adults. And I see legal issues too. Remember several years ago when a homeless guy successfully sued a public library in the east I think. New Jersey? The librarians had tried to keep him out because he looked and smelled rotten as I recall. I’ll take a little kid dressed in a decent way over a homeless guy with likely mental issues. But the law says we have to have the homeless guy. I just saw your next comment. I think one reason they don’t have the rule posted is likely they know one good lawsuit by a disgruntled adult with a kid will be the end of that rule. It is POLITE of Will to avoid the periodical room.”

I can also see the merit in this comment and am equally glad that the unwinder had the courage to post it. This is the type of dialog that really motivates me to do this blog everyday. Thanks, unwinders.

Question of the day: Which side of the issue are you on? Is there a middle ground? Have at it.

Comments here:
http://willmanley.com/2010/07/27/will-un...http://willmanley.com/2010/07/27/will-unwound-185-obstreperous-cantankerous-cacophonous-and-necessary-by-wi]]> <![CDATA[Happy Birthday, HockeyHound!]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3196 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:47:25 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3196 Balloons

]]>

]]> <![CDATA[Another Infomercial Pet Style]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3195 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:06:19 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3195 https://www.buyshedvac.com/

I saw this on TV late last night.
And I thought of all of us wonderful pet parents who might want to
benefit from this product. It looks pretty cool to me.
I wish I had this when Misty was alive, may she Rip

I know Sir Boots would never stand for that, no matter how quiet
it claims to be.
But if anyone wants to be a guinea pig and buys this product? PRETTY Please let us know if it works?
THANKS Smile

]]> https://www.buyshedvac.com/

I saw this on TV late last night.
And I thought of all of us wonderful pet parents who might want to
benefit from this product. It looks pretty cool to me.
I wish I had this when Misty was alive, may she Rip

I know Sir Boots would never stand for that, no matter how quiet
it claims to be.
But if anyone wants to be a guinea pig and buys this product? PRETTY Please let us know if it works?
THANKS Smile

]]> <![CDATA[For the Canadians - do you hate Winnepeg?]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3194 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:29:33 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3194 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFWtkOM5X...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFWtkOM5XgY&featu

I adore this song - it comes up on my Pandora. Not sure what Canadians think!?]]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFWtkOM5X...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFWtkOM5XgY&featu

I adore this song - it comes up on my Pandora. Not sure what Canadians think!?]]> <![CDATA[Nothing trumps motherhood!]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3193 Wed, 28 Jul 2010 06:26:58 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3193 http://www.timesunion.com/living/article...http://www.timesunion.com/living/article/Nothing-matches-trials-and-triumphs-of-motherhood-

When I held our first son, I knew nothing could compare with being a mom. I was amazed at the whole darn thing. The night we brought him home from the hospital, we slept with the bedroom and hall lights on.

My mom, a mother of seven, had flown in to help for a few days. The second night, she gently suggested we turn the lights out. I imagine she laughed herself to sleep at how clueless we were.

At the age of 5, this little guy started playing the piano by ear. If he couldn't find a piano, he'd play whatever was nearby. His little fingers silently plinked away as his head bobbed side to side.

Nineteen months later, our second son arrived and we moved from Pittsburgh out to Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Still clueless, we drove in the heat of July without air conditioning. I kept glancing back at our newborn's little neck tilted to the side with beads of sweat under his tiny nose.

This son could run at 9 months. I never saw a child with so many bumps and bruises. At 3 years old, I'd frequently find him on the verge of tears after his "big" brother informed him, "You can't marry Mom. She is your mother!"

Sitting still in elementary school was beyond challenging for him, and I consistently got the call from his teachers by mid-October. One day I was leaving the school after dropping off yet another forgotten assignment when his health teacher stopped me in the hall.

"Mrs. Bonanno, I just wanted to tell you that the other day I handed something out to my 25 students, and your son was the only child who said 'thank you.' He's as polite as they come." (I wanted to hug that man!)

Almost three years later, our third son arrived. The doctor informed us there was a problem with our baby's heart and that he would need surgery. I felt a searing fear burn through my bones.

There is an inexplicable gift of wisdom and knowing that comes with being born less than perfect. This son has the gift and has been described countless times as "the most centered person I've ever met."

Two years after that, our fourth son was born. Whenever he was tired, he would climb into our arms and peacefully fall asleep. One afternoon he fell sound asleep in my husband's left arm on a trail horse in the Canadian Rocky Mountains. His body was roughly bouncing up and down, yet he slept soundly. To this day, he's still a great sleeper.

We are empty-nesters now. When our boys come home to visit, we are amazed at what they do and how they do it. I regret the time I wasted fretting over less-than-stellar report cards and detention notices.

I'm still generally clueless, but I've learned a lot from our boys: Finding what you're good at and getting really good at it, honoring people by treating them politely, walking through life with a sense of contentment in light of the fact that you are not perfect, and enjoying a good night's sleep, can go a long way to leading a happy life.

Nothing compares with being a mom. I guess I'll always be amazed at the whole darn thing.]]> http://www.timesunion.com/living/article...http://www.timesunion.com/living/article/Nothing-matches-trials-and-triumphs-of-motherhood-

When I held our first son, I knew nothing could compare with being a mom. I was amazed at the whole darn thing. The night we brought him home from the hospital, we slept with the bedroom and hall lights on.

My mom, a mother of seven, had flown in to help for a few days. The second night, she gently suggested we turn the lights out. I imagine she laughed herself to sleep at how clueless we were.

At the age of 5, this little guy started playing the piano by ear. If he couldn't find a piano, he'd play whatever was nearby. His little fingers silently plinked away as his head bobbed side to side.

Nineteen months later, our second son arrived and we moved from Pittsburgh out to Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Still clueless, we drove in the heat of July without air conditioning. I kept glancing back at our newborn's little neck tilted to the side with beads of sweat under his tiny nose.

This son could run at 9 months. I never saw a child with so many bumps and bruises. At 3 years old, I'd frequently find him on the verge of tears after his "big" brother informed him, "You can't marry Mom. She is your mother!"

Sitting still in elementary school was beyond challenging for him, and I consistently got the call from his teachers by mid-October. One day I was leaving the school after dropping off yet another forgotten assignment when his health teacher stopped me in the hall.

"Mrs. Bonanno, I just wanted to tell you that the other day I handed something out to my 25 students, and your son was the only child who said 'thank you.' He's as polite as they come." (I wanted to hug that man!)

Almost three years later, our third son arrived. The doctor informed us there was a problem with our baby's heart and that he would need surgery. I felt a searing fear burn through my bones.

There is an inexplicable gift of wisdom and knowing that comes with being born less than perfect. This son has the gift and has been described countless times as "the most centered person I've ever met."

Two years after that, our fourth son was born. Whenever he was tired, he would climb into our arms and peacefully fall asleep. One afternoon he fell sound asleep in my husband's left arm on a trail horse in the Canadian Rocky Mountains. His body was roughly bouncing up and down, yet he slept soundly. To this day, he's still a great sleeper.

We are empty-nesters now. When our boys come home to visit, we are amazed at what they do and how they do it. I regret the time I wasted fretting over less-than-stellar report cards and detention notices.

I'm still generally clueless, but I've learned a lot from our boys: Finding what you're good at and getting really good at it, honoring people by treating them politely, walking through life with a sense of contentment in light of the fact that you are not perfect, and enjoying a good night's sleep, can go a long way to leading a happy life.

Nothing compares with being a mom. I guess I'll always be amazed at the whole darn thing.]]> <![CDATA[job-hopping]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3192 Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:33:00 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3192
I graduated with my Bachelors degree 4 years ago at age 38, and since then I have had 6 jobs! Right now I am working as a receptionist at a local community college. I have been doing this full time for about 7 months, and I am ready to jump again! I don't get any satisfaction out of dealing with the public, my boss is nice but a severe control freak, and the hours are rigid.

I am depressed and wondering what my next move should be--go back to school AGAIN, try to find another job AGAIN, or just stick it out. The college just laid some people off, and right now there are no other jobs I can move into there. I seem to do better with 2 part time jobs, but until 2014 I won't be able to get health insurance if I do that.

My family is really disappointed in me since I can't seem to find myself. I just can't bring myself to tell them that I am thinking of quitting yet another job. Well just needed to vent, thanks for listening.]]>
I graduated with my Bachelors degree 4 years ago at age 38, and since then I have had 6 jobs! Right now I am working as a receptionist at a local community college. I have been doing this full time for about 7 months, and I am ready to jump again! I don't get any satisfaction out of dealing with the public, my boss is nice but a severe control freak, and the hours are rigid.

I am depressed and wondering what my next move should be--go back to school AGAIN, try to find another job AGAIN, or just stick it out. The college just laid some people off, and right now there are no other jobs I can move into there. I seem to do better with 2 part time jobs, but until 2014 I won't be able to get health insurance if I do that.

My family is really disappointed in me since I can't seem to find myself. I just can't bring myself to tell them that I am thinking of quitting yet another job. Well just needed to vent, thanks for listening.]]> <![CDATA[Vacation without the kids, part deux.]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3191 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:49:24 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3191 Apparently DH's parents had 'penciled' us in for EVERY Friday and Saturday that the kids' parents will be out of town...and didn't mention it to us until yesterday....and they leave this Friday. DH isn't happy to learn this either, but feels that at this point we can't really back out since it is too late for anyone to make other arrangements.

So DH & I have had a discussion about this continuing problem and I told him that I will not agree to watch the kids again until we have a discussion with their parents (DH's brother & his wife). I told him that I feel taken advantage of, because we watch the kids ever couple of months (usually for several hours, if not a couple of days) and their parents are ALWAYS 2 or 3 hours late picking them up. They have not once thanked us for watching the kids. We have to trade cars with them, because all 3 kids are in carseats, then they return our car without refilling the gas tank. We have watched their dog while they were out of town, and kept him for a full year when they lived somewhere where they couldn't have pets. But everytime we asked them to watch our dog, they act like we are putting them out. Banghead

I told DH that they take us for granted and are taking advantage of us. He thinks that we are just helping them out because that is what families do. But I think that helping someone out is taking the kids for an afternoon when they need a break, or taking turns taking off work when their mom was hospitalized (because she was severely depressed from being at home with 3 sick kids and didn't get any sleep for almost 4 full days). Taking off work and watching the kids while their parents go on a 19 day vacation is not 'helping out', it is 'enabling'.

I let DH know that I am willing to watch the kids this time because I love him and he wants to help them out, but that this is the last time that I am doing it until we talk to his brother and establish some ground rules. And the first rule will be, if the parents are more than 15 minutes late picking up their kids I will start giving the kids Red Bull until the parents finally show up.]]> <![CDATA[How Train Track Are Made Today]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3190 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:36:42 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3190 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFE8nmKpmXY

If you ever wondered how train tracks are made these days
Please click on the link above.

IMHO this is so fricken awesome!

Caution: this starts out slow, but then you will really see how it all comes together.]]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFE8nmKpmXY

If you ever wondered how train tracks are made these days
Please click on the link above.

IMHO this is so fricken awesome!

Caution: this starts out slow, but then you will really see how it all comes together.]]> <![CDATA[Carolyn Hax -- Writer doesn't want kids, but maybe she can put up with them?]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3189 Mon, 26 Jul 2010 04:33:54 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3189
By Carolyn Hax
Monday, July 26, 2010

Adapted from a recent online discussion:

Hi, Carolyn:

I'm childless by choice because I don't enjoy being around small kids. However, I've always suspected I might be missing out on that aspect of life.

My sister recently commented on how fast her kids were growing up, and that she has forgotten what it was like for someone to need her every second. This made me wonder whether the thing I dread most -- that exhausting, annoying stage between infancy and 8 or 9 -- is really less of a big deal than I think it is. Do you think I am right to rule out being a mom, or is there a chance the ends would outweigh the journey?

Pennsylvania

Of course there's a chance, but with kids, you can't test your theory, say "Oops!" and change your mind.

So, I can't encourage you to go for it when there's any chance you'll be a cranky, put-upon nightmare to your kids for the highly formative first eight or nine years of their lives.

And if you're a grudging parent while they're small, don't expect angels when they hit your hoped-for age of reason. The better-behaved kids tend to be the ones whose parents really hung in there and did the hard work -- of saying no despite the risk of touching off a tantrum, of getting up in the middle of the night to soothe away nightmares despite being stumble-into-walls exhausted, of listening to them before they have any skill at expressing themselves, of letting them make normal kid mistakes without getting shrieky and punitive on them, and so on.

Even the best parents fall short here and there. But the best ones are, in general, with their kids in the moment, and not looking off to a distant somewhere else they'd rather be.

Remember, too, that not all kids come out with a full set of abilities. You have to be ready to be a wholehearted parent to a special-needs child.

So, have kids only if you really believe you're up to being that kind of parent for as long as you need to be, and if you really believe your life would be enriched by children, and, as always, if you truly believe you'd be the kind of parent you'd want to have.

Re: Pennsylvania:

Remember, you might be thinking of it as just eight or nine years, but for your kid it would be their whole life so far. Your temporary stage would be all of reality as they've ever known it.

Anonymous

Heartbreaking and true, thanks.

Re: Pennsylvania:

She could consider adopting. Usually the older kids have a more difficult time getting adopted.

Anonymous

True. However, older children often have had traumatic childhoods.

I realize that can be used to support two completely different arguments -- (1) they need the most awesome parents out there, or (2) any stable, non-abusive, permanent home is better than life in the foster system -- but either way, I'm reluctant to say to a reluctant parent, "Adopt an older child."

But I'll let you say it, and add a caution that it can't be just about getting a child after s/he gets "easier." It has to be about giving an older child a chance, for the sake of the older child.]]>
By Carolyn Hax
Monday, July 26, 2010

Adapted from a recent online discussion:

Hi, Carolyn:

I'm childless by choice because I don't enjoy being around small kids. However, I've always suspected I might be missing out on that aspect of life.

My sister recently commented on how fast her kids were growing up, and that she has forgotten what it was like for someone to need her every second. This made me wonder whether the thing I dread most -- that exhausting, annoying stage between infancy and 8 or 9 -- is really less of a big deal than I think it is. Do you think I am right to rule out being a mom, or is there a chance the ends would outweigh the journey?

Pennsylvania

Of course there's a chance, but with kids, you can't test your theory, say "Oops!" and change your mind.

So, I can't encourage you to go for it when there's any chance you'll be a cranky, put-upon nightmare to your kids for the highly formative first eight or nine years of their lives.

And if you're a grudging parent while they're small, don't expect angels when they hit your hoped-for age of reason. The better-behaved kids tend to be the ones whose parents really hung in there and did the hard work -- of saying no despite the risk of touching off a tantrum, of getting up in the middle of the night to soothe away nightmares despite being stumble-into-walls exhausted, of listening to them before they have any skill at expressing themselves, of letting them make normal kid mistakes without getting shrieky and punitive on them, and so on.

Even the best parents fall short here and there. But the best ones are, in general, with their kids in the moment, and not looking off to a distant somewhere else they'd rather be.

Remember, too, that not all kids come out with a full set of abilities. You have to be ready to be a wholehearted parent to a special-needs child.

So, have kids only if you really believe you're up to being that kind of parent for as long as you need to be, and if you really believe your life would be enriched by children, and, as always, if you truly believe you'd be the kind of parent you'd want to have.

Re: Pennsylvania:

Remember, you might be thinking of it as just eight or nine years, but for your kid it would be their whole life so far. Your temporary stage would be all of reality as they've ever known it.

Anonymous

Heartbreaking and true, thanks.

Re: Pennsylvania:

She could consider adopting. Usually the older kids have a more difficult time getting adopted.

Anonymous

True. However, older children often have had traumatic childhoods.

I realize that can be used to support two completely different arguments -- (1) they need the most awesome parents out there, or (2) any stable, non-abusive, permanent home is better than life in the foster system -- but either way, I'm reluctant to say to a reluctant parent, "Adopt an older child."

But I'll let you say it, and add a caution that it can't be just about getting a child after s/he gets "easier." It has to be about giving an older child a chance, for the sake of the older child.]]> <![CDATA[Book of Boobies/Breast cancer research]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3188 Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:03:19 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3188
An old friend of my brothers is a photographer. J & his wife are doing a Book of Boobies to raise money for breast cancer research. My best friend, M, and I went in last week for a photo shoot to be in the book. No faces are shown, but I'm wearing a pink bra, black button down shirt (open), and a long antique silver necklace. M is wearing a strapless bra with huge sunflowers all over it. Normally I hate being photographed (I'm short & overweight), but J did an amazing job.

The book is coming out in October (available on Amazon for $39.99), but he is taking early orders right now for $29.99 + shipping.

http://fotowerks.net/blog/store/]]>
An old friend of my brothers is a photographer. J & his wife are doing a Book of Boobies to raise money for breast cancer research. My best friend, M, and I went in last week for a photo shoot to be in the book. No faces are shown, but I'm wearing a pink bra, black button down shirt (open), and a long antique silver necklace. M is wearing a strapless bra with huge sunflowers all over it. Normally I hate being photographed (I'm short & overweight), but J did an amazing job.

The book is coming out in October (available on Amazon for $39.99), but he is taking early orders right now for $29.99 + shipping.

http://fotowerks.net/blog/store/]]> <![CDATA[Very cool!]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3187 Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:34:21 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3187 Anyway, I decided to put an ad on Kijiji about petsitting. I got a response to take care of two cats. The woman seemed really nice on the phone, but I was still nervous about meeting someone off the Internet.

So, my husband and I went to meet her. She was really nice! We then found out that she and her boyfriend are child-free. We clicked really well, and will probably become friends! She was talking about going for a coffee sometime.]]> Anyway, I decided to put an ad on Kijiji about petsitting. I got a response to take care of two cats. The woman seemed really nice on the phone, but I was still nervous about meeting someone off the Internet.

So, my husband and I went to meet her. She was really nice! We then found out that she and her boyfriend are child-free. We clicked really well, and will probably become friends! She was talking about going for a coffee sometime.]]> <![CDATA[Dogs-Flea & Tick Control]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3186 Sun, 25 Jul 2010 06:57:51 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3186 <![CDATA[Holidays]]> http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3185 Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:00:01 -0700 http://www.wekidyounot.org/wkyn/showthread.php?tid=3185

The topic? Holidays.

We're already having a problem figuring out what to do for Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Last Thanksgiving we went to his parents in Wasilla, Alaska. It was the first time I'd met the entire family(mom, dad, sis, bro). It was fine, but not something I want to do on a regular basis.
For 1 it's in Wasilla which is synonymous with BORING.
For 2 his family are weirdly religious and won't eat ham. I LOVE ham, especially on Thanksgiving. My family used to eat more ham than turkey on Thanksgiving.
For 3, I'm not a total fan of his family. His parents are nice people, but his siblings...I'll just say...they aren't my type of people. And I don't seem to be their type of person either. Which is fine I guess. I didn't marry them, I married their brother.

For Christmas we went to Seward, Alaska where his sister lives for FOUR F-ING days! It rained and I was miserable for 3 and a half of those days. Same issues with the family, food and being in BORINGville with the addition of it being FOUR days. Not to mention his brother didn't give us a Christmas gift(or a wedding gift but that is another thread).

I know it's July and we're on our honeymoon, but we saw some holiday ornaments in a store today so that brought up the topic.

What do you all do for holidays? Your family? spouses family? on your own? don't celebrate?... Are you happy with the set up?

ps:
Seeing my family is difficult and not really an option as they are at a minimum a $1400 plane ticket away for the both of us.]]>

The topic? Holidays.

We're already having a problem figuring out what to do for Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Last Thanksgiving we went to his parents in Wasilla, Alaska. It was the first time I'd met the entire family(mom, dad, sis, bro). It was fine, but not something I want to do on a regular basis.
For 1 it's in Wasilla which is synonymous with BORING.
For 2 his family are weirdly religious and won't eat ham. I LOVE ham, especially on Thanksgiving. My family used to eat more ham than turkey on Thanksgiving.
For 3, I'm not a total fan of his family. His parents are nice people, but his siblings...I'll just say...they aren't my type of people. And I don't seem to be their type of person either. Which is fine I guess. I didn't marry them, I married their brother.

For Christmas we went to Seward, Alaska where his sister lives for FOUR F-ING days! It rained and I was miserable for 3 and a half of those days. Same issues with the family, food and being in BORINGville with the addition of it being FOUR days. Not to mention his brother didn't give us a Christmas gift(or a wedding gift but that is another thread).

I know it's July and we're on our honeymoon, but we saw some holiday ornaments in a store today so that brought up the topic.

What do you all do for holidays? Your family? spouses family? on your own? don't celebrate?... Are you happy with the set up?

ps:
Seeing my family is difficult and not really an option as they are at a minimum a $1400 plane ticket away for the both of us.]]>