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The thing that I've noticed over the past several years, is that for the most part, the guys that I've managed to attract haven't been the type at all that I would consider dating. Case in point: I think this guy in my class asked me if I was busy this upcoming weekend. I thought he was asking me about work. I said that yes, I was going to be very busy...working. I realized after the fact that I pretty much unintentionally blew him off. But the thing is...yeah, it's flattering that someone finds me attractive. But this guy is so not my type. He's a little strange around the edges and really eccentric. Basically, he's harmless, but he's just an odd guy. Does that make any sense?

When I keep attracting really eccentric guys or guys that are a little "strange", it's really hard not to start asking myself "Is there something wrong with me in the fact that I attract these types of guys?"

I never expected that I would wind up with an Adonis-type. In fact, a guy who was a little rough around the edges was always far more sexier to me than a guy who had perfect looks. Not only that but being around super-attractive guys tends to make me more aware of my flaws. In my mind I start nit-picking about things like my skin or my clothes or my hair. Then I mentally tell myself that I could never have a chance in hell with a guy like that and mentally tune him out. I do this because not only do I start to feel extremely self-conscious around really attractive men, but because I assume that they're not interested in me. I'm not a 6ft model type. I'm 5'2", weigh 103 lbs, and have a petite shape. I'm usually taken for 6 years younger than the 28 years that I actually am.

This actually brings up my other dating dilemma. Because I look younger, guys who are in their early 20s may come and talk to me. But the thing is I don't want to date young guys either. I am looking for someone who is at least 27 up to about age 35. But I find that a lot of guys in this age bracket are already in serious committed relationships and are getting married if they aren't already. And for those in the bracket that are single? Again, they take me for 21 so they don't even notice me at all.

I just don't know if I will ever meet anyone decent. The guys I've been winding up with seem perfectly normal at first and then turn out to be total freak shows or demanding assholes. Where oh where are the normal, decent average (and single) guys 'cause I can't find them.

Well, I don't know where they are but they definitely aren't around here.

I'm stuck for time, but I wanted to say that I understand where you are coming from. We're different people, and I'm not exactly in the same boat, but you aren't alone in much of what you write.

The other day I had a 40 year old tell me that he had an open marriage and would I be interested? He then casually mentioned that sometimes people become more attractive over time, so my "No thanks" was apparently more of a "Not quite yet". Don't worry, I made it clear that sometimes (most of the time) you DO know right from the start.

Now he wants to hang out with me in order to meet my female friends. He's a pleasant guy to chat with, and my friends feel the same way that I do (NO THANKS!) and don't mind telling him, but I don't know... There are a limited number of people here to chat with so I don't want to cut him out completely but...

I'm sorry I went on a bit of a tangent when you mentioned odd people and situations... this one's a bit more 'special' than usual mind you. Most of the time the guys who are attracted to me are much more undefinably 'odd'.

Whew, I felt that way, too, before I met DH. I've never been the kind of girl who "always" has dates -- it was much more likely that I would go YEARS between tepid little boyfriends. So I frequently fell into the moan about "where are all the good guys"?

The sad answer is that good guys are in places that good guys hang out -- work, school, home, and wherever their hobbies/interests take them. Good guys aren't in bars, they aren't trolling the vegetable aisle, they aren't eyeballing you in the library, etc. Good guys -- like good women -- live their lives in a "good" manner.

Which makes it all the harder to find them, unless you happen to run into them at work, school, home, and/or wherever your hobbies take you.

I will say one teeny tiny word for online dating sites -- a good guy, like a good woman, will try them, and then get disgusted. A good guy on an online dating site isn't going to broadcast himself all over the place. It might be up to YOU to find him. I will say I met DH online, but that was wayyyy back before anybody with a library card could get on the Internet. There was something about the price barrier to buying a computer that made the 'net a little bit safer in the mid-90s, as opposed to now. So, I'm not saying you should try online dating. Date online at your own risk!

I suggest a good exercise, in determining whether or not your standards are realistic. Do the ol' list. The "ideal man" list. After you do that, and sit on it for a few days, divide that list into "optional" and "non-negotiable" items. On my list, being a non-smoker and having a job would be non-negotiable. Hair color would be negotiable (and it ought to be! -- after all, they are probably going to lose it anyway, so why get caught up in hair color, or length, or style?).

Another benefit to "the list" is that you can then spot the trends in the guys you date. Take, for example, tattoos. Let's say you like a guy with a tattoo, so you put that on the "non-negotiable" side of the list. Fine and dandy. Except the vast majority of men who have tattoos have them because of OTHER lifestyle choices, which might not be what you want -- say, being in prison, being in a gang, being the kind of guy who lets his buddies control his body art on a dare, being the kind of guy who often wakes up drunk with mysterious things done to his body, etc. In which case, you should consider moving tattoos to the "optional" side -- after all, once its optional, you can fall for some guy who fits your other criteria, then the day you undress him might be the day you are pleasantly surprised by a cute little rose on his ass.

And I mention the list because my DH is not a man I would have chosen, had I met him in person first. He has moments of social awkwardness, especially in stressful situations (as, say, a first date would be). He also has a very scary voice when he gets angry -- he would never hurt someone, but his voice moves into a range or timbre that makes nerves strum with fear, without any logical explanation (it's neither deep, nor threatening, nor loud, but there's some way he can express his emotions through his tone of voice, without any of the usual cues of scariness -- I can't explain it). Had the first time he was mad at me been face-to-face, I would never have learned that it's just something in the quality of his angry-voice, and I would have left him on the basis of a "red flag".

As to hot men, why do you limit yourself? Not saying that "hotness" should necessarily be a criteria on your list. And frankly, after you look at a hot guy for a while, they don't look so hot anymore (I find that the men I find most attractive tend to look "girly" after I study them awhile). Focus just on the traits that matter to you -- like being a non-smoker and employed! -- rather than on aesthetic traits. In which case, "hot guys" are no longer off limits, IF they meet your criteria (they don't meet mine -- I find "hot guys" too egotistical, generally speaking, so they tend to not meet some of the most important requirements on my list!). You are fabulous! (see below) -- and since you are fabulous, no man is off limits, unless he doesn't meet YOUR requirements!

And I know this is not popular to say, but you also need to look at yourself. It's not popular to say, but it's true -- you have to be worthy of being someone's life partner. Do you have the qualities that would attract a good man? -- what is it a good man wants in a good woman? Is that you?

I'm very bothered by this:

Quote:In my mind I start nit-picking about things like my skin or my clothes or my hair. Then I mentally tell myself that I could never have a chance in hell with a guy like that and mentally tune him out.

I know you were talking about hot guys, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that if you think this way about a certain segment of the male population, you also think this way generally, at times. Am I right? This kind of negative thinking puts that kind of negative energy in to the world, and you attract only negative people. You end up attracting the kind of man who likes a woman to beat up on herself, who thinks he's better than she is, who has low self-esteem. These kind of men who like a woman like that are VERY dangerous people.

So, you need to change the way you think. You may not be a glamour queen, but I'll bet you're decent enough, right? Other women less attractive than you have gotten mates, right? Other women hotter than you have been in rotten relationships, right? So, put out that POSITIVE energy! It sounds stupid, but it works -- look in the mirror every day, and think of FIVE good things to say about yourself, and say them, out loud, to yourself. Do this every day. And feel it as you walk. I am a woman who is more than a hundred pounds larger than you (taller too, but still....), but I walk tall and proud. I am smart, capable, intelligent, happy in my job, loved by a great dog (and a good man, but that's beside the point...I felt this way before I met him), respected by my peers. I have flawless skin, nice eyes, and a lovely mouth. I see THOSE things when I look in the mirror, and I DO NOT focus on the pounds, the graying hair, the bitten-down nails. I project how great I look. I project how confident I am. I project how capable I am. Are those the three things good men want? -- ABSOLUTELY!!! They want good looking, confident, and capable women.

Sorry this is so long.

Quote:This actually brings up my other dating dilemma. Because I look younger, guys who are in their early 20s may come and talk to me. But the thing is I don't want to date young guys either.

So you have something against younger men?
I met my hubby when he was 21 and I was 29 going on 30
back then I had my fill of men my age and older. They were all full of shit.
So despite the big age difference. Bob proved himself to me that age is just a number!
Try not to get hung up on what age is!
if the man is good, kind, decent, hardworking, and is fun to be with.
I see no reason why you should NOT go out with someone younger then yourself.
Besides putting an age limit on the men you date, narrows your field of what is available out there.
Come on!!!!!!! No one is asking you to marry a younger man.
But that, imo, is no crime either.
Just date one, you never know what your missing till you try,

I wish I could find the link, but awhile back a woman did an experiment where she decided she was going to learn more about herself by dating different types of men for several months. Unless the guy had some quality that was an absolute dealbreaker for her, she would go out with him. I think she also asked some guys out herself. She met a lot of interesting (some good, some bad) people that she would not have otherwise.

Maybe you could try something like that and see what happens. If nothing else, you might learn what attracted these guys to you, or you might be able to better discern what you want out of a relationship.

It's not that I'm against younger guys persay. It's just that the ones I've met in the early 20's range I've found do not want a serious relationship and are usually like to play games. Not that ALL young guys do this and not all older guys don't, it's just the ones I've been running across. But in general I would prefer either a guy close to my age or a few years older. My ex-fiance was 10 years older than me and in the end, I think it was too big of an age gap. He would often act as if he "knew better" than me because he thought himself so worldly. GMAB.

While I am looking for a more long-term relationship, I'm willing to try dating casually at first because of the mistakes I made in the past. I would usually get serious about someone and date one person exclusively only to get my heart broken when it didn't work out. I think the best thing would be to try casual dating with no commitments at first until I find someone I'm attracted to. FIND being the operative word.

PrairieGirl Wrote:Except the vast majority of men who have tattoos have them because of OTHER lifestyle choices, which might not be what you want -- say, being in prison, being in a gang, being the kind of guy who lets his buddies control his body art on a dare, being the kind of guy who often wakes up drunk with mysterious things done to his body, etc.

That's a horrifically unfair assumption and generalization. Vast majority? The vast majority of men and women I personally know who have tattoos, including myself and my husband, have them because they like them and they put a lot of thought into the images and meanings (and none of them have a "cute little rose" on the "ass"). My husband and I and our tattooed friends don't fall into any of the categories you listed above, so your "vast majority" description can be said to be unfair and untrue.

I'm going to stand by what I said, but I will admit I did not make my list of tattoo-related examples comprehensive.

My point still stands. A woman may want something in a man, without wanting (or perhaps realizing) what it takes for a man to have that "something". Well-built men are a very good example. I admire a really well-built guy as much as the next girl, but I am not at all interested in a man who goes to the gym for four hours after work, or whose conversation consists mainly of discussions on how to use protein powder and how to maximize a workout -- yet that might be what it takes to get a body that beautiful. Other women may be interested in that sort of lifestyle, and good for them! -- but that's not me. It doesn't mean that when I realized this I then went out and targeted ugly men -- but I did expand my definition of "beautiful" and found a guy who is hot TO ME.

I used to want hot-bodied guys -- but I like a guy who comes home after work, not who goes to the gym after work. I used to want gorgeous guys, too -- but I like a guy who doesn't have every woman in the room rubbing up against him, slipping phone numbers in his pocket, calling at all hours regardless of my presence in his life, etc. I'm too jealous, and my life would be a misery, even if he were completely steadfast.

The point is, the things that we might like in an ideal mate (both men and women) all have causes. Sometimes, we look only at the symptoms -- "hotness" -- not at the causes (he might be so narcissistic that every day is about his body, his face, his hair, and the perfection of his physique, to the detriment of anything else in his life). The point is to make the list, and make sure you THINK about the list. If she wants a good churchgoing man, well "churchgoing" is a symptom, not a cause -- does she really want a staunch Christian, or just a man who will show up and "amen, Jesus" in the pews with the best of them, or a man who has a general spiritual sensibility (those three things are some causes of the symptom of "churchgoing").

The same thing goes for girls, too -- guys always wonder why the gorgeous women are such bitches (also a gross generalization!). But it's because a woman whose project is her body -- the perfection of her hair, nails, face, makeup, body, breasts, etc -- may not have a lot of room for much else in her life, just as the man who concentrates so strictly on his physique may not have much room, either. Hotness has a price, and sometimes what falls by the wayside are the hot person's relationships. (Exhibit A -- practically every Hollywood relationships.)

It's important to think about what it is you want, when you make the list. It's more than pretending you're choosing the parts of man out of a catalog -- it should be more about thinking about the KIND of person you want, beyond the physicalities of "tattoo", "tall", "head full of hair", etc. Once you open your mind to the root cause of what you REALLY want in a man, you will find there are plenty of men out there, in all kinds of physical and sartorial packages!

I agree with Anastasia. A lot of people I know do body mod as part of their spiritual paths and/or because they are artistic people.

I would not say the "vast majority." What I would say is that, among people who have made bad lifestyle choices, body mod is fairly common.

A VAST MAJORITY of body mod people, you will find, are actually highly intelligent and quite often artistic.

Jen M.

anastasia Wrote:

PrairieGirl Wrote:Except the vast majority of men who have tattoos have them because of OTHER lifestyle choices, which might not be what you want -- say, being in prison, being in a gang, being the kind of guy who lets his buddies control his body art on a dare, being the kind of guy who often wakes up drunk with mysterious things done to his body, etc.

That's a horrifically unfair assumption and generalization. Vast majority? The vast majority of men and women I personally know who have tattoos, including myself and my husband, have them because they like them and they put a lot of thought into the images and meanings (and none of them have a "cute little rose" on the "ass"). My husband and I and our tattooed friends don't fall into any of the categories you listed above, so your "vast majority" description can be said to be unfair and untrue.

Water Lily, that happened to me, too, back when I was single. It was always just "thanks, but no thanks." One thing to consider is that, as we get older, the dating pool simply shrinks.

I think PG's posts (minus my beef about the tattoos comment, and it's not a big beef) were excellent, and I agree with everything else that she has said, especially about believing in yourself and your own strengths and knowing exactly what you want.

I used to get hit on by younger guys--sometimes WAY younger--because I look younger than I am. It never bothered me. I was always flattered, and most of my boyfriends have been younger than I.

About online dating: That's how I met Moody_Rants. The key, though, is to find a site where people can put up very detailed profiles. You want to know what you may be getting into. Sometimes it does work out well. You'd be surprised.

Keep an open mind. Don't rule anyone out based on physical criteria alone. I get what you're saying about "hot guys," but again, with an open mind, you might find yourself pleasantly surprised at what and who is around you.

Jen M.

Bittercat Wrote:A VAST MAJORITY of body mod people, you will find, are actually highly intelligent and quite often artistic.

I did not say they weren't. Just that body art MAY imply other aspects of a lifestyle that a mate-seeker doesn't really want. Read previous posts for details. I'm not explaining it again.

This is the story of my freakin' LIFE. Every single man who has ever been attracted to me has been either a rapist, a stalker, or someone who degraded me. It's to the point where I'm not even flattered anymore when men think I'm attractive. I feel like a piece of meat.

This isn't easy for me to talk about, so forgive me if I'm vague and short. In my life, I've had two guys that liked me. One tried to rape me, stalked me for a bit, and destroyed my reputation in the local metal circuit. The other one was kissing me and groping me while I was sleeping (I was camping with a group of friends). I should have fought him off and hate myself to this day for not doing it, but I guess I was too frightened to do anything but lay there and pray to god that he'd stop.

When I go out, men seem to like me. They call me all kinds of names (slut, whore, and so forth) and point to me while they're with their groups of friends and make obscene gestures and remarks.

But those are the only men that like me. "Normal" men don't want anything to do with me.

I'm always wondering what it is about me that drives away decent guys and makes scumbags flock to me. I don't dress like a whore (and even if I did, that doesn't give them the right to treat me like one), I don't go places that scumbags hang out (save for the mall, which I don't go to anymore), and I don't engage in scumbag activities.

I hate admitting this, but it's destroyed my self image and my feelings towards men. I can't trust them, and I feel that they don't look at me as a human being, but as a walking vagina. For as much as I want a boyfriend, I don't think I can ever trust someone who would claim to be interested in me. I've been treated like this for 27 years. Why would it change now?

I don't have sky-high standards. I just want a man who will love me, treat me like a lady, can cope with my illnesses, and can be there for me when I need him. That's not unreasonable, is it?

I think your standards are fine. I know from experience that it is hard to keep putting yourself out there after you've been burned before, but I can tell you this: you definitely won't get what you want if you don't take a chance on someone. It might help to do some therapy to see where you are emotionally and how you are feeling about yourself. I know it helped me a great deal. Coincidentally (or maybe not), about the time I started feeling better in therapy, I met my DH. It was very hard for me to trust him and believe in him at first because I had been hurt so badly in my previous two serious relationships, but he turned out to be the real deal. God knows he is a patient man as he waited for me to come around and realize that he did love me the way I needed to be loved and was nothing like those other assholes.

to all you single ladies who have been through so much hell.. I just cannot imagine what that kind of ego bust is all about.
I know it has to be hell to think that
"My god will I ever find Mr Right" And your so afraid to try again.
But..... here is the catch...... If you don't try, you'll never know what you missed out on.
So may I suggest, that you don't close yourself off to people just because they look different or act different. Individuality, imho, is the corner stone to life! It would be ever so boring if everyone here on this board typed the very same message over and over. Or it would be ever so boring if everyone on this planet wore a Tat.
Or it would be ever so boring if everyone on this planet had no tats at all. Individuality ladies, that is the key to what makes this world go round.
So, it is important to try and keep an open mind to new ideas.Ok so if a guy is a few years older or younger then you. Its no crime,
Just because one guy was older and treated you badly, does not mean that the next older man would do the same.
And if you met a man that had a tat? Well if he was handsome in the face, and treated you with respect, what difference does his tat make? It should not matter in the grand scheme of things.
And basically, men are not as complex as we think they are. Its just a matter of knowing what is in their heads other then then the obvious.
So, getting inside a man's head can be a tough job. But it can be done.
With a little luck and a a lot of Patience!

So, to all you single ladies. I hope one day you will find your "Mr Right"

Okay, since this was brought up again...

In the past six months I have met the following oddballs. You can say what you want about 'being open-minded' but you should find that there are also limits:

* First, was the guy who started chatting with me on an open patio, even though it was late at night and I was busy chatting with Jo. Eventually I signed off the computer chat so that I could get ready for bed, and the whole time he was trying to hold a conversation with me. The reason that I was ignoring him was because he was giving me an odd vibe (he was telling me some very strange stuff, and I don't think he realised how much I knew and how it didn't make much sense). As I got up he asked if he could walk me home. I explained that I lived only a few steps away and did not need company. He then walked a few steps with me, to where we were away from anyone else, and told me that he had 15 minutes until he was meeting up with a couple other women and would I like to have some fun? I told him that what I really wanted was sleep, thank you very much, and I turned about and walked home (going a slightly longer way to ensure that nobody was following). The legacy of this is that I have one coworker who will occasionally look at me, giggle, and then say "A whole 15 minutes!" Which proves to me that grown men can giggle... given the right reason.

* Someone told me about his girlfriend of 10 years. Then, several days later when I was having a bad day, he gave me a hug and asked if I was interested in something more. So much for a nice platonic hug because I was feeling shitty

* Most recently I was offered in trade for someone's car. It was a nice car, and he was offering an inflated price because he really likes blondes, but... I'm not exactly sure who he was planning on bargaining with.

Going back to my original point... some people seem to attract weirdos. To the point where I have sat down with female friends at a patio or public place and had guys come up to me and they will look at me and say "This is really normal for you, really?" and I have to explain that yes, I wasn't kidding when I complained about weirdos. There's a reason that my best friend once bought me a button that says "What am I? Flypaper for freaks?"

Ziggy: Ew! I'm really sorry. I am.

I got really lucky this last time I found myself single. I went out on one date before I met Moody_Rants, and the guy was nice. He was really interesting to talk to, too. It was a fun date, but we weren't 100% compatible. We remained friendly, but I have not spoken to him in months.

The very next day, I met Moody_Rants, and the rest is history. Hopefullly, a very long history!

I do know that "flypaper for freaks" feeling, though. I used to make some really...interesting choices.

Jen M.