I saw a couple of articles recently about drinking levels and friendship. More than anything else, these articles said, your relationships with others will be governed by how much you drink, or don't drink.
In the last few years, we met and spent some time with other couples but as time passed and most of their activities and time seemed to revolve around booze, we pulled back. I almost don't drink at all, and Joyce almost never drinks when we're out. Even though I'm almost always the designated driver, she usually doesn't drink, either, because often it gets dark and I really shouldn't drive then.
On this board we often talk about how our friendships are controlled by whether other people have spawned. Well, neither of these couples had, and what was more, they had dogs, but these things weren't enough because they either drank until they were obnoxious, incoherent or asleep.
I really can't go over one drink. If I do, I realize it, and I lay off and stay up so I won't have a hangover. I can get a hangover on two drinks! I usually only drink on special occasions or if I nab a plagiarist and get all tense and upset.
So obviously, although no kids and a love of animals are pretty important to us, it's been alcohol that has interfered with continuing relationships.
What about you? Any similar or different experiences?
I've not really experienced friendships that revolve around drinking. Most of my friends don't regularly, and I can handle my liquor well so it's never been an issue.
I guess it's the dynamic of them too; where I live now, my friends do have kids or we like to be home by a certain time for time with our spouses, so none of us go out at night. We aren't going to drink at noon, so drinking never comes up.
Most of my hometown friends were the types that drinking was just "wrong" or they had never touched the stuff. A friend of mine was 27 and I gave her her first drink, at the age of 27. Otherwise most of my friendships revolve around day time outdoor type activities. Where I last live we had a few that liked to go out and drink, but it wasn't an issue for me as it wasn't often. I probably would have liked to go out more (Grew up sheltered and never even got a buzz until I was 26 and married) but no one ever wanted to much.
Sometimes DH's military buddies would want to or there would be a going away, but I'd out drink most the guys and I've never puked from it.
Interesting observation though. I've always hear from people who think that "younger singles or people without kids just wanna booze it up on the weekends" and eventually you grow out of it. A lot of course use the bingo that "because they have kids they've moved on to more grown-up things" whether going out and drinking is an immature thing to do or not, I don't appreciate the whole "kids make you mature" thing. I also don't like that in the military community as well, if you have no kids you are automatically labeled a "partier". Everytime we have gone out with friends and have drinks it's not at some bar at 3am every weekend, there's no dancing on tables or acting stupid.
Like most things, it honestly depends on the people involved. If you have rabid teetotalers then it can be awkward just as if you have people who insist that you have a shot of booze. My view is that if driving isn't an issue then I'll have a drink or two to be social but if they are serving non-alcoholic drinks then I'll accept one and not complain. If the situation were reversed and I were the host I certainly would not try to force drinks on people who weren't interested.
Being a host/ess means trying to be gracious to your guests and make them welcome.
I would agree with that.
DH and I love to drink wine and a lot of our get togethers do revolve around wine. Like having or not having kids, if you don't have anything in common with people, you don't hang out with them. Why would you?
Friendships at the very foundation are defined by who we want to be and what we want to define us. In other words, what do we find fun and do we have that in common?
Alcohol consumption is not a big factor for my friendships, as I occasionally get drunk with some of the closer ones (I end up giggling a lot, which they enjoy, so they give me more to drink). In that context it's safe, and it reinforces the people that we want to be - laid back (we sit around and chat at these) and laughing hard. Physically I enjoy those sessions.
At any other occasions I either don't drink or I drink alcohol that has a pleasant taste (for example wine). I drink in moderation - even in the most extreme examples I am still relatively coherent, although a logical mind might save me acting stupidly. I get together with friends to enjoy the same things - often board games, cards, food, etc - and that's what keeps us together. If they drank to the point of being incoherent or sleepy then they couldn't participate in those activities, and if they were obnoxious then those activities wouldn't be enjoyable (we've had to extract certain people for being asses, but that wasn't due to their drinking).
It's never been a huge issue with me as I have some friends that drink a lot in specific situations (again, to the point of being silly, so maybe 'a lot' isn't a good unit of measure as they're still coherent and funny if I'm sober) and others that have never touched alcohol, and we all seem to get along. Again, I think it's because we all have a similar definition for 'entertaining'. I don't find kids to be entertaining, and from what you've described I wouldn't find unpleasant drunks to be entertaining.
Maybe you could capitalise on the boundaries of your potential friendship with them to go on dog walks (allowing you to spend time together away from alcohol) or out for tea and a chat, or something similar.
Booze is a HUGE factor in my friendships. Yes, more important that children. I was raised in an alcoholic family, I was in relationships with alcoholics and drank myself stupid through most of my 20s. I remember it was a conscious decision for me to live a different life, and that included ridding myself of my drinking buddies and finding new and real friends. It was VERY hard. I still work at it. I don't date men who drink which basically means I don't date. It's shocking what a drinking culture I live in. I do not want to live a life where the people in my life get in the door and go to the fridge and reach for a beer and then say hello in that order. That is usually a big red flag for me. Unlike Ziggy, I don't have a lot of experience with people who get 'silly' when they drink, but rather get abusive or pass out or otherwise extreme behaviours.
As a result I live a pretty solitary life. I don't generally like being around people who drink. It's not fun for me.
I agree it can be frustrating when a friend's life -- or just their ideas of "a good time" -- seems to revolve around drinking. My favorite aunt and uncle in the whole world seem to have shifted their focus to drinking more. They always drank alcohol, especially in the evenings after work -- he liked his beer, she liked a glass of wine-in-a-box. Then I moved away and didn't see them for 12 years until I went to see them one week around Christmas a few years ago. In that 12 years, their only child grew up, moved to a big city about 2 hours away from them, and some of their friends that they had socialized with moved on. Oh, and their son came out -- this matters for the story.
So, when I went to see them, they planned several big nights in the big city, with their son and his partner, touring the gay bars, which they all find very entertaining. And I'll admit, it was a slice of life, to see two Bubbas (think Larry the Cable Guy) dancing the two-step; and see a hot lookin' guy dance on a table in a speedo, which appeared to be his job, as my 60 year old aunt and my cousin's partner shoved dollar bills into the tiny piece of cloth. We hit four gay bars that night, with my aunt and uncle (age 62) advising me with expertise -- this bar doubles the alcohol, this one waters it down, get the pina colada here, don't get the pina colada here, etc. But I don't drink much, and couldn't really do even one drink per bar.
My aunt got so tipsy that she was screaming the lyrics to a song in my ear at one point. Her son had to help her walk to the next bar (the gay bars in this city are in a strip, for the most part). Frankly, it just wasn't fun. But they were having a good time -- my 29 year old cousin and his similarly-aged partner, hanging out with the old drunk geezers. But at 40, I'm just not into it -- never was. Even when we went back to their own town, they wanted to go out every night -- even just to "pop in to this bar, because they have karaoke"'.
I don't think we spent one evening quietly at home, watching a little TV, making a meal with each other, talking over life and memories (although we did plenty on the long drives to and from the big city, and in the afternoons). And they are not bad drunks -- the amount they drink did not incapacitate them for driving (which is, in itself, a bit horrifying!), nor did they wake up with headaches. My aunt and I got up early one morning to tour local museums, a favorite thing of both of us. So it's not like I didn't enjoy my time there -- but that so much of their evening life just revolves around alcohol, public bars, karaoke, and hanging out with their son.
And I'll admit it's none of my business, and that age shouldn't be a limiting factor -- but they ARE in their 60s, and it's just a tad bit weird that they drink out in bars so much. I think they are becoming a sad cliche -- the drunk geezer in the corner that all the young people at the bar will laugh at, because they are ALWAYS there, and will ALWAYS sing "Green Green Grass of Home" on the karaoke. And what about the rest of their lives? -- is so much alcohol doing damage to their bodies? -- what about when one of them dies? -- will the other be the drunk widow-geezer in the corner, demanding that no one sing "Green Green Grass of Home"? I know they are having fun, and I know they are in good health still -- but for how much longer can they keep this up, and what will they have when they ultimately have to quit?
Frankly, it's the same with anyone who has a single-minded hobby. Hiking all the time with your hiking buddy is fine -- hike here, hike there, hike this mountain, hike that trial -- until the day your knee blows out and the doctor says you can't hike like that anymore (nice sedate walks on flat surfaces for you, from now on) -- but what is the friendship then, when all you had was hiking? WHO are you, if you don't hike, and how do you find friends, when your conception of yourself has changed so drastically -- from enthusiastic hiker to.......to what?
I have no problem with enjoyment of alcohol. If some wine shows up at a party, I consider it as much an addition (not a part, mind you -- note the careful wording!) to the festivities as the cheese ball is. But when the party -- or all one's future festivities -- revolve around the cheese ball, it can get boring. Worse, there's something about alcohol that seems to put it in a special category -- if you don't enjoy the wine as much as others, you're a fuddy-duddy, you're no fun, you have hang-ups, you have inhibitions. No one would say that about you and the cheese ball -- and in fact, if the party did revolve around the cheese ball, EVERYONE would think the hosts are nuts! But not when the focus is wine, or beer, or spirits -- that, somehow, seems "normal".
Maybe your Aunt and Uncle took you out every night because they thought that's what you'd like? Maybe they thought a couple of quiet evenings at home were not your thing.
I know when I go away for a few days the last thing I want to do is sit around and watch TV. I can do that at home. I want to see the night life and find out how others live.
Just a thought...
I'm kind of like Jo. Because I grew up in an addictive household, I am uncomfortable around drunk people. I will have a little wine on Shabbat and the occasional drink (maybe 3-4 times a year), but I don't like to drink to the point where I feel like I'm losing control. Most of the time in social situations, I don't drink. I don't make a big show of it or say anything to others who do because it's their choice and my friends generally don't get drunk when they do drink. But it surprises me that people who drink often feel uncomfortable if everyone around them is not also drinking. I actually had a close friend tell me his partner feels awkward around DH and me because "you don't drink" (which is not true, but DH is fanatical about not having even one drink if he's going to be driving at all within the next few hours). I have also had people ask me three or four times if I'm "sure" I don't want a drink.
Probably, but they do that anyway. It's their way -- the weekends are for drinking and karaoke, and some weekdays, as well!
(05-07-2010 07:49 AM)Ziggy Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe you could capitalise on the boundaries of your potential friendship with them to go on dog walks (allowing you to spend time together away from alcohol) or out for tea and a chat, or something similar.
Ha. Tried that. They just bring it with them, or cut short whatever activity to go home and drink. It doesn't start out that way, but after a few get-togethers the booze rears its ugly head. It's not that we're teetotallers. BJ has a couple beers a day, usually. I like wine with meals, but we seldom drink out at a meal because that adds big bucks to the tab. It's not a religious thing, either; it's just annoying not to be able to have a complex or interesting discussion because they're fixated on the next drink.
I'm not a big drinker, and I don't like to be around people who are. I have the odd bit of sake with sushi sometimes, a beer or two a few times a year, a glass of wine a couple of times a year, a glass of champagne on New Year's. I don't get drunk and neither does my husband, I wouldn't have married him if he were into drinking a lot. I grew up in an alcoholic family and was married to an alcoholic the first time round, so I feel pretty uncomfortable around people who get drunk.
We were friends with a married couple a few years ago and had to stop playing with them because their whole lives centered around getting drunk. I hope they cut that shit out when they spawned a couple of years ago but I doubt it. It made perfectly normal high school honor student teachers into boring asses.
My life experiences echo those of Jo and Dune67.
You know, now that I think of it, both my parents were drunks and so was my first spouse. There just may be some connection, huh? (Duh).
Sorry I never had such an experience as you eslbee
But I can sympathize with the parent issue of booze. Cause Booze wrecked Bob's relationship with his father ( as in they never speak)
So, Hubby does NOT drink much anymore.
He did for a while and only on weekends and only in the privacy of our own home. But he up & quit for whatever reason, and I am happy about that.
As for me I am not a big drinker either.
Wine makes us both sick to our stomachs. And I only borrow beer as it goes right through me.
So Rum is our drink of choice. And we only drink it now on special occasions, like New Years. And I only have one friend who I get snookered with. She has a grown son, so that is no big deal to me
She has 3 bull Mastiffs, and she is a wonderful friend.
And once a year at Xmas we get sloshed on Goldshlager ( sp?)
And there is never any scenes cause we are both too happy just being together.
She is a RN Nurse is a Psych ward and is very busy.
So for her to drink once a year is a testament to her strength in character,
If I had her job, I would be boozing every day, lol
But I understand your problem eslbee. I just wish I could help?
I understand your not a big drinker. Maybe you can suggest to your friends to go easy on the booze?
Maybe drop some hints that they are the nasty type drunks
If they are your friends I am sure they won't mind some helpful constructive criticism?
It won't hurt to try.
The worse case scenario is they tell you to buzz off. And well, your halfway there to telling them your sick of it anyway, so its worth a shot to try and help them.
But, then again that type of aggressive behavior needs more help then You can give them
So good luck on either score, you will need it.
TW, as soon as I find out people are unpleasant drunks, I just stay away. I'm not getting into it with anyone.
I can sympathize with you Eslbee... My first husband was an abusive drunk.
In my situation, alcohol hasn't played too much of a role in our friendships. However, my husband is a social drinker and when he gets around others who drink A LOT, he can get carried away. He isn't an alcoholic or drunk by any means, he doesn't drink daily, usually goes months without drinking....but if the "crowd" is right, he will indulge and my panic button goes off due to past experiences. Now, DH has never given me a reason to panic, but I suffer from PTSD due to ex husband and unfortunately alcohol can be a trigger.
That being said, one of our friends is an alcoholic. Before he moved away, I kept DH away from him as much as I could...which was a shame because in all honestly, this friend is a good person, and like a brother. Now that he's moved, I talk to him all the time and he is one of my best support systems since DH deployed to Iraq. Unfortunately he is an alcoholic and when he and DH get together, it's just one bad influence on another....I've heard stories of my husband drinking.....I shudder at the thought.
So yeah...I guess sometimes alcohol plays a role, but only in that sense.
(05-07-2010 08:26 PM)eslbee Wrote: [ -> ]TW, as soon as I find out people are unpleasant drunks, I just stay away. I'm not getting into it with anyone.
Good for you eslbee Sometimes non-confrontation is just as good too.
I always say a "A man's got to know his limiations". That works just as equally for women. I am proud of you.
Kudos
There is definitely a cultural aspect to this - I don't mind having a beer or glass of wine in a group where nobody else is drinking alcohol. It's just my choice of what to drink, same as a glass of juice, pop, or anything else. I went around at work and asked people if they wanted to drink alcohol at a party (it was for work, so we had to have names ahead of time). Some did, some didn't, and no judgements were made. One guy started to explain and I cut him off right away and said "It's up to you, I'm happy that you're happy". I don't know if it's a european thing as I grew up with a family that assumed that alcohol was one option for a drink at a meal (same as water or juice) and possibly a wee nip of something after dinner. Parties were different as more alcohol might be consumed, but still it wasn't an excessive thing.
I'm also used to working with muslims, some of whom drink and some don't, so I've learnt to just ask the question "I'm pouring wine, would you like some?" and not go on from there.
I read a thing somewhere, maybe an AA or related site, that has the warning signs of alcoholism, and one (they range in number and order presented) was that you go to functions primarily to drink, rather than for the function itself: wedding, graduation or whatever. That is a huge part of American culture: goin' drinkin'.
As Ziggy says, in Europe, people drink socially because the point is TO socialize, not to drink. It is very rare to see anyone drunk on the Continent, not counting soccer fans.