So far I'm the only guy who seems to be willing to post. I guess a view from the other gender might be interesting.
I never really thought deeply about the choice of having kids until I was a teenager. When I was a kid I figured that I'd someday have a family and a job and house in the suburbs as the usual American Dream. When I turned 15 my parents both privately came to me individually and gave me "The Sex Talk" where my grandmother said to be careful and my grandfather told me not to dip my wick in the candle. It was then that I realized that I could potentially have children and the idea was loathesome to me.
Even as a child I hated children and greatly preferred the company of adults. It won't surprise anyone who has been here for awhile to learn that I am very intelligent and reclusive. This made me an easy target for the other kids in school and the taunts and teasing made me not want to deal with anyone in general.
As a teenager it occurred to me that the whole "Life Script" was a bunch of crap. The whole idea of living a life that really didn't interest me was horrifying. I can express my views now since I am older but the whole idea of working a 40/hr a week job, having a family, living in a suburb, doing the whole mowing the lawn thing was just horrifying to me. The idea of being bogged down in things that I didn't want just was wrong to me.
In college as I became more enlightened I could express my feelings in a more in-depth manner. One thing that was significant was realizing that I was asexual and a good part of that was the idea that a single one night stand could make me a father which was one thing that I never wanted. The true irony was that never having sex in high school because of my social awkwardness was a blessing in disguise. My own birth was the result of an encounter my biological parents had in the back of a 1968 Oldsmobile and it wasn't for the best. Let's just say that as a result of this I'm who I am now.
As a person approaching middle age I realize that having children and living the "Life Script" is not what I want. My lifestyle may not be what most people want but then again most people live a lifestyle I would never want.
Thanks, Eddy! Excellent to hear from the other side.
Being CF makes it easier not to have to follow the Life Script, stay in a job you hate etc.
(01-30-2010 06:17 PM)noelle Wrote: [ -> ]Being CF makes it easier not to have to follow the Life Script, stay in a job you hate etc.
Exactly. It's why corporations are so against a public health plan option in the US. If employees weren't tied to a job because of health benefits, you'd find a lot of people changing jobs.
While I'm at, I'm going to expand upon my original post from a man's point of view.
I think one of the major reasons you see such a disparity in the numbers of men v. women on CF sites is because women are so much more heavily affected from having a child than men could ever be. I'll just use myself as an example even though it's pretty unlikely to say the least.
A woman has the obvious issue of being pregnant which of course isn't a bowl of cherries. While I would have to care for her, it simply isn't as big an issue for me because I can still work, go out, and pursue my own interests. A pregnant woman is limited for obvious reasons.
Then you have the issue of birth. Even with a fully attended hospital birth with a C-section the risk of death for the baby or the mother still exists. Once I've contributed my sperm my job is done. She however has the risks associated with childbirth. Again, it's the woman bearing the burden.
After the child is born, it's pretty obvious that it's the woman who will care for the child. When you think about it, most of the "dad" moments are Kodak moments. These are the moments where dad plays catch with his son or is celebrating a birthday with the kid. Nobody really talks about the "mom" moments of changing diapers or dealing with a sick kid.
It's always mom who gets the grunt work and not the Kodak moments.
Quote:It's always mom who gets the grunt work and not the Kodak moments.
So true. Its the mom who works to create the kodak moments-sometimes just to compete with other moms, but still she has to deal with the everyday problems.
(01-31-2010 10:09 PM)Koi Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:It's always mom who gets the grunt work and not the Kodak moments.
So true. Its the mom who works to create the kodak moments-sometimes just to compete with other moms, but still she has to deal with the everyday problems.
This doesn't have to be true by a long shot, BUT it's up to the woman to secure an agreement from the father that either he will be carrying his half of the child-rearing burden, or he loses all rights as a parent, or there will be an abortion immediately. This obviously needs to be discussed before impregnation occurs, or if not possible, before the pregnancy advances too far.
This is a carryover from another thread, but why in the world do we not make teens and kids even younger talk about what it means to be a parent? I could see the mess and chaos created by children when I still was one, but apparently this is invisible to a majority of people. When a diaper is being changed, any other child around should be made to at least look at it, and to see and clean up puke, and the like. Or they should be shown how many movies or toys a child costs, or how many vacations. Or how long it will take to get a new car if there is a child in the picture.
Not so long ago high school kids were made to carry around a sack of flour and treat it like a baby for their parenting classes. They couldn't take a shower or a piss without properly securing the bag either with appropriate restraints, or in the custrody of a responsible human. I wonder if they do that any more.
Eslbee -- many schools do that, only now you get a mechanical baby that cries and indicates (in some electronic fashion?) that it has wet the diapers, etc. More realistic, and just as heavy. At least the sack of flour doesn't cry at 2am, but the electronic baby does!
But I think that's not enough. There are PLENTY of women who will at least say, "yeah but" -- yeah, but that stage only lasts about a year and a half, and THEN it's the greatest thing on the planet, blah blah blah. I think we need comprehensive life lessons. Toddlers whine and complain AND are still in diapers. Young people demand expensive gadgets. Teens are moody and all your years of effort devolve into "I hate you, mom!" Then you get the extreme pleasure of paying for college (if you're that type -- I've always been against paying for college, if the parent can't really afford it, but somehow college has become a parental obligation and a child's RIGHT!), during which they waste your money by partying and getting pregnant. Assuming they haven't already gotten pregnant while they were still in your house.
My FIL once said that the best age was around 7-9, because that was when the kid was out of diapers, they were obedient (if you have trained them), and they loved you like you were the sun and the moon to them. It was the sweetest age, he said. He said this in regard to seeing why we liked dogs, as our dog was perpetually age 7-9 -- obedient, out of diapers (house trained) and adoring us with every fiber of her being. Makes some sense -- definitely one of the best parts of pet ownership is that they adore you, and will never (even with mistreatment, god forbid!) turn on you. Unlike children, whose sole purpose in life is to turn on you, and the lessons you have taught them!
In my high school our "babies" were eggs. The class was called Quest, and it was about living life in general, parenting being a part of that.
In my school it was a sack of flour. They didn't really care what we did with our flour babies though. I think the "take care of a baby" routine was just that, a routine they went through the motions with but didn't actually care about whether we were doing what we were supposed to or not. I carried that flour baby in my backpack to school and left it in my locker through most of the day. I passed that class anyway. Ahhh, public schools!
Quote:doing the whole mowing the lawn thing was just horrifying to me.
You got something against grass Eddy? LOL Just teasing you.
I know what you meant. But FYI We do own a house and hubby does mow the lawn, minus kids, so it can be done!
Not unless you really do fear greenery, LOL
Great story and your not the only man, that is C.F. I know, it just somehow feels that way for you.
Hang in there your time will come!
I was thinking about the disparity of childfree men vs. women and wondering (just thinking aloud now) maybe it has something to do with women dealing with more pressure about it due to us not having an endless supply of eggs, and eventually going through menopause, whereas men never have anything similar?
Could be that, and could be women are more expected to want children and more likely to bear the brunt of raising them while many men are expected to go along for the ride. I have heard a lot of stories, here and elsewhere, about men who didn't care and went along with what the mother wanted. Could also be that culturally, women are expected to cave to societal pressure, so that's where the pressure is placed. While I have not found such pressure an issue, again, I have heard a lot about it. Oh, and the pressure may go up depending on culture and religion.
I agree, I think that's probably part of it too. That women are expected to have this maternal urge to procreate and nurture children, whereas men aren't expected to have quite the same thing. That men are seen more to acquiesce to a woman's strong desire for children. That a woman who doesn't want children is seen by society as "unnatural" in some way, whereas men who don't want children are seen at a lesser disdainful way as simply "immature." Probably because of that disparity in the expected roles and desires, women who are CF deal with a bit more pressure/hostility and have to think more about their choices and why they choose them. Which would lead to them becoming more aware of the childfree stance as a movement instead of just a personal choice. Not trying at all to belittle what CF men go through with their stance, just really thinking out loud here. Maybe it's the disparity of pressure and expected gender roles that makes women who choose to be CF have to take a stronger stance and really stick to their guns about it. Which would lead more women to CF forums.
Nice to read when a Male thinks about wanting to be CF.
