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Ditto what Mark said, there is no "time" in the flash sideways, so they can meet up "whenever" they all have decided to let go, and Jack was the last to let go. And because there is no time there, they can look how they looked when they knew each other when they were alive. Christian pretty much explained just about everything very concisely and very well in a few short sentences.
(05-25-2010 03:36 PM)anastasia Wrote: [ -> ]Christian pretty much explained just about everything very concisely and very well in a few short sentences.

Yes:

But anyway, here is what I think happened in the end: It all hinges on that scene with Jack and his father. So first, let’s look at what they say to each other:

Christian: Hello Jack.
Jack: I don’t understand. You died.
C: Yeah. Yes I did.
J: Then how are you here right now?
C: How are YOU here?
J: [realization hits] I died, too.
C: That’s OK. It’s OK, son [hugs]. I love you son
J: I love you, too, Dad. Are you real?
C: I sure hope so. Yeah, I’m real. You’re real, everything that’s ever happened to you is real. All those people in the church. They’re all real, too.
J: They’re all dead?
C: Everyone dies some time, kiddo. Some have been before you, some long after you.
J: Why are they all here now?
C: There is no now, here.
J: Where are we, Dad?
C: This is a place that you’ve all made together so that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time that you spent with these people. That’s why all of you are here. Nobody dies alone, Jack. You needed all of them, and they needed you.
J: For what?
C: To remember, and to... let go.
J: Kate... she said we were leaving.
C: Not leaving, no. Moving on.
J: Where are we going?
C: Let’s go find out.
I'm reading that blog post that Jo gave us the link for right now. I felt just like the blogger did, that the ending was gorgeous, beautiful, and it reduced me to choking tears, and then I go online and see tons of people saying it was dumb, a cop-out, it didn't make sense, everyone died in the first episode in the crash, and they felt cheated. I'm thinking, did they actually see the same show I did? Did they listen to one word of the conversation between Jack and Christian? Oh well. Writers can't please all of the people all of the time. What's really retarded is there's a whole group of people out there on the 'net furious that Sawyer didn't end up with Kate and that's why the End was ruined for them. Really? I mean, really?

Anyway, as it applies to my own life, as I think about the possibility of a sort of "way station" or stopping place after death, where you don't realize you're dead and are living out a kind of facsimile of your previous earthly life, and then you find out you're really dead and need to let go and move on---well, I don't like that idea at all. I wouldn't want to let go and move on. Move on to the light? To the end of life and the end of you? The end of your experiences and consciousness and everything that made you you? If Jin and Sun hadn't remembered and moved on, they would have had their baby and been together. I think that would be more desirable than letting go and disappearing into nothingness, maybe? Staying indefinitely at the way station might be better!
Five Reasons Why the Lost Finale Was Great — and Five Reasons it Wasn’t

Even More on the Lost Finale…

Yeah, yeah, I know: I kind of blew my Lost wad with my first column on the finale. But the number of arguments I’ve gotten into regarding the finale, the logic (maybe) behind it, and whether or not it was any good is starting to climb. I was going to do a “Five Things to Do With My Life Now That Lost Is Over” column, but in the interest of milking the cow and fueling the debate over the ultimate ending of the show, I figured I had one more of these comprehensive things in me. So, without further ado, I present to you, once and for all, five reasons why the Lost finale, and the final Lost season in general, was great. Stick around for a second opinion afterwards.

Five Reasons Why the Lost Finale Was Great:

1: There Was a Happy Ending.
-I mean, as happy an ending as you can get considering that, when all was said and done, our Lostaways were all dead. But considering all the freaking misery each and every one of them went through over the show’s six seasons, seeing everyone get their closure in the afterlife was incredibly satisfying. Even big bad Ben Linus, although excluded from the final journey into the great beyond, seemed to have come to terms with his life as a villain, and made a serious effort to repent. His apology to Locke and decision to remain in limbo (or whatever) so he could work out his own demons brought redemption to Ben in a way none of us saw coming (or, in some cases, even thought was possible). Not happy enough? I’ll go you one better. It was love that ultimately redeemed everyone; Jack and Kate, Sawyer and Juliet (my favorite Lost couple of all time), Rose and Bernard, Desmond and Penny - love was the catalyst that made them remember. Now that’s a warm and fuzzy ending for a show that had been absolutely ruthless with its characters up to that point.

2: Hurley Didn’t Die.
-Well, retract that. Everyone died, I guess. But at least we didn’t have to see our favorite fried-chicken enthusiast go down in flames or get mauled in a showdown with the Man in Black. That, all joking aside, would have been the biggest tragedy of them all.

3: They Didn’t Sell Out.
-Maybe I’m alone in this (more on that later), but for me, a Lost finale that put whatever questions we hadn’t gotten the answers to yet above what happened to the characters would have been completely inferior to what ultimately was put onscreen. I said it before, and I’ll say it again: Lost is probably the greatest sleight-of-hand TV show ever made. We got hooked because of the crazy stuff happening on the island, but, without even recognizing it, we got more invested in the characters than we did in the mysteries. Or at least that was the idea of the thing. The finale, much as the show has always done, put resolving the characters over resolving the mysteries, and we got those resolutions in some truly wonderful ways. Desmond (it’s implied, at least) got to go home to his wife and son; Ben found redemption as Hurley’s number two, and Richard Alpert, sprouting his first gray hair, finally recovered the joie de vivre the island had sucked out of him over the previous 180-something years of being Jacob’s lackey. I, for one, would much prefer that over a big “aha!” as to why that big peacock-looking thing screeched out “HURLEY!!!” all those years ago.

4. They Did Answer the Important Stuff (or At Least Enough of It).
-As I mentioned in my previous column, there were, for me, three and three questions alone that absolutely, 1000% needed answering going into this final season: what was the monster; why didn’t Richard age; did the nuclear bomb work. Had my memory not failed me, I would have thrown the whispers in the jungle onto that list as well. All four of those questions were answered. To recap: the monster is the Man in Black, aka Jacob’s brother, or at least his disembodied spirit WHAM! Richard doesn’t age because he was afraid he’d go to hell and asked Jacob for eternal life. WHAM! The bomb did work; what we thought was an alternate version of history throughout all of Season 6 was really the afterlife. WHAM!!! And the whispers are the ghosts of men, women and children whose past sins prevent them from leaving the island in death, i.e. double-murderer Michael. WHAM!!! Now: I really, in all honesty, would have loved an explanation for the Egyptian stuff on the Island (I always figured Jacob’s people brought it, but they seem to be hinting he comes from Roman roots. So that doesn’t add up), the women-can’t-have-babies thing, and Walt’s powers. But my enjoyment of the finale - and the show as a whole - doesn’t live and die with those answers. As far as the Walt thing goes, here’s my theory. We’ve seen people who can resist the island’s light (Desmond) and talk to the dead (Miles, Hurley and the Man in Black). These people are evidently “special,” with no further explanation required. Walt was special in that he made birds fly into glass screens. Works for me; can’t say I’ve cared for a long, long time.

5. It Makes Sense.
-Well, at least I think I’ve made moderate sense of it. Take out the flash-sideways from this season and everything we’ve seen actually happened. The island is real, the flashbacks, flashforwards and time-travel were real as well. I know Lindelof and Cuse aren’t the most trustworthy bunch, but I’ll buy that the island wasn’t actually Purgatory or hell or the like.. What we thought was a glimpse at an alternate life this year was really the great hereafter for our Lostaways. Clearly, some had been dead longer than others, since Kate seemed to have outlived Jack (”I missed you so much, Jack”) but Jack was the last one to be enlightened. Hurley and Ben had that conversation that implied a long, prosperous rule over the island. So the flash-sideways life didn’t start, or at least couldn’t be deciphered, until all the Lostaways were dead. More to the point, the sideways world was “the place they built,” according to Christian. What I’m guessing that means is that it was where they could have all the things they thought they wanted before the 815 crash: Hurley was lucky, Desmond had Widmore’s respect, Sawyer and Ben were decent men, etc. But their lives still weren’t complete, because once Jacob touched them, they were destined to end up together when all was said and done. Desmond knew about this place in both realities because…I don’t know, he’s special; let’s go with that (see Number 4). So it was the place the Lostaways’ built where they could be together with their loved ones, ideally. But the entire theme of this season has been choice. They can choose not to join the group and “move on,” as Ben does, for whatever reason. But once they made peace with their lives, deaths, faults and past transgressions, they were able to “let go” of their imperfect lives and move on from their finally completed sideways lives, with Jack’s father leading the way. I think. Either way, that seems like the gist of what happened. It’s been real, Lost.

…But wait! There’s more, and here’s a first for Fame Hype: I have some help on this one.

As I mentioned in my Lost finale recap/rumination/rant, my cousin Frank is one of the folks who was disappointed by what went down in the finale. Now, while I disagree with his ultimate reaction, I have to say he articulated his arguments extremely well when I spoke to him on the phone, and while Rule #1 of my columns is that I am always right, I think this is one of those instances where a second, differing opinion is required. After all, this is now the fourth column where I go on and on and on about how great Lost is, the idea of bringing someone into the discussion that walked away disappointed - and who can voice his complaints in a way that makes sense - is an interesting one. This finale was designed to be polarizing; whether or not that’s a load of crap is your opinion, but as Lost has always told us, there are two sides to every story. And besides, Rule #2 of my columns is that any idea I have is automatically great. So: without further ado, I give you, in his own words through the magic of e-mail, Frank (Not Lapidus), my cousin, the Man of Science to my Man of Faith, with the five reasons why the Lost finale, and the final season in general, sucked.

Why the Lost Finale (and final season) Sucked
1: The Part that Makes Sense… Doesn’t Make Sense.
-Regardless of your level of confusion following the closing minutes of Lost’s final episodes (and I’m not going to even try and make sense of it here), I’ll give them credit that the one aspect of it that they made abundantly clear was that those people in that room all made that place so that they could be together for the rest of eternity… or something. Even if that does make sense to you, however, it makes no sense when you take the history of the show into account. For one thing, Rose and Bernard are there? Why the hell do they want to be there? They’ve spent the better part of the last few seasons avoiding everyone else on the island. Even in the finale they were willing to feed a crippled and beaten Desmond to his own devices just so that they could avoid everybody else. Even more strangely, Sayid and… Shannon? Really? Not Nadia, the woman that he shot himself in the leg for? Not the woman who’d driven him to murder many people over the course of six years in efforts to keep her safe and avenge her death? He wants to spend eternity with… that girl that he only knew for a month and a half that he hooked up with once? And why’s Aaron there? He never even met most of these people. Is he there so he can be with his mom? No one else there decided to spend eternity with their mom, so why would Aaron? Jack’s there with a parent, but Jack and his dad never even got along? When you take a close look and think it over, a lot of that last scene just makes no sense whatsoever.

2: They Didn’t Solve Any Mysteries.
-Walt’s powers? The experiments on Walt? The reasons why certain 815 survivors were kidnapped? The sickness? No one can get pregnant on the island? Polar bears? Miles can talk to dead people? Why did a wheel make the island move? Where did the food drops come from? How the Dharma Initiative kept going for decades after all of its employees were gassed to death? Where did the statue come from? Why did spinning a wheel make the island start shifting in time? Why did Ben banish Widmore? The numbers??? I could give a list a mile long about mysteries that weren’t solved, and I almost left out this fact entirely because it’s the easiest gripe to come up with. But I had to leave it in for two reasons. First, a massive part of the allure of the first three seasons of the show was that it was able and willing to solve a ton of tremendously interesting mysteries. And secondly…

3: They Created a Ton of New Mysteries in the Final Season (…And Didn’t Bother To Solve Them).
-Why was the island sunk in the flash-sideways world? Why couldn’t the man in black ever find the lit up cave? Why did pulling that rock out of the pool make the island fall apart? Why did putting the rock back in the pool stop the island from falling apart? What was the deal with the lighthouse? Why was Hurley so willing to let a proven sociopath in the middle of a murder spree be his ‘number two?‘ What exactly was that light in the cave? Don’t even try to say they explained that last one. It’s ‘the heart of the island? Really? That’s all the explaniation you’re willing to offer? Gee, thanks. That’s so informative and fulfilling. That almost as good as the time you explained that the man in black can’t leave the island “because it’s against the rules.” Wow. Earth shattering explanation. Thanks, Lost writers, for bestowing that bit of knowledge on us.

4. So Much Wasted Time.
-Now that the show is over, honestly, what on earth was the point of spending so much time focusing on the Asian guy that wouldn’t speak English and his cohorts (Anthony’s note: he means Dogen and the Others’ Temple). The show introduced them to us any the beginning of the season, they seemed pretty intriguing, but before we could get anything interesting out of them, they all got wiped out in one fell swoop. What was the point of all that? So we knew that Locke was mean now? The time would have been better spent clarifying ANYTHING from Point # 3 or 4. (And by the way, after watching the finale, you can now tell your friends that if they want to watch season, 1, they can skip past every scene that takes place on the island after the crash, because it has no bearing on the series in the end.)

5. The Writers Knew that it Wasn’t Any Good.
-We were bombarded throughout the finale (and the week leading up to it) with advertisements for the special post-Lost edition of Jimmy Kimmel Live. One of the main draws that ABC gave us to watch this was the promise that they would show us some ‘alternate endings’ that were filmed but not used. If you stuck around until the end of the special, however, to actually watch these alternate endings, you saw that they were merely parodies of other much maligned series finales recreated featuring Lost’s cast with interspersed cameos by writers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. Instead of getting anything that clarified the morass of the Lost finale, we got send-ups of the ‘it was all a dream’ ending from Newhart and the spontaneous cut-off from The Sopranos. Cuse and Lindelof couldn’t have made their point more clearly: our finale probably sucked, but at least it wasn’t as bad as those ones.

http://thefastertimes.com/famehype/2010/...-it-wasnt/
One more link (full of links) for you guys...

I have been friends with Lyla for YEARS... not only do we walk in a lot of the same social justice/Pride circles, etc., she also started working at my place of work, and it was a casual assignment she got working at a school for the severely disabled that started this whole ball rolling...

Anyhow, she wrote a lecture/church service about LOST that she delivered at her Unitarian Universalist Church. She also got written up in Entertainment Weekly as a LOST Super-Fan.

All the links can be found within: http://www.hardcorenerdity.com/profiles/...st%3A91128

(And yes, if you read the transcript of her church service, that is my sister Anne Marie, who did the music for it. LOL)
Quote:we got more invested in the characters than we did in the mysteries.
No truer word spoken as far as I was concerned.
I too cried for the reunion of Sawyer & Juliet. That was worth watching. I did love the characters which was the ONLY reason I stuck it out for 6 long years. That and my BFF watched it too.
So, I am going to copy & paste all of this to send to her.
I am sure she will get a real blast from all of this.
I read all the pro's & con's here. And I agree with Cousin Frank
The ending left me speechless and sickened cause nothing for me got answered. As stated by cousin Frank. ITA with him.
OK so flight 815 crashed and everyone died and that was that?
That is almost as much of a cheat ending to a show as The Sopranos cut off was

"The Simpsons" had it right.. "It was all the the dogs dream"! LOL
Of course we don't see Vincent in that church? TG, but still stupid as he was on that plane!
I think what confuses me most about the ending (but is also, essentially, the most Lost-like), is the fact that all the weird wacky stuff (polar bears, the big frozen wheel, the black smoke, etc) was the "real" part and the stuff that seemed absolutely normal (Jack and his son having breakfast, Ben teaching history class, etc) was the "fake" part.
What a switcheroo!
I was all primed to learn that the island stuff was dream/fantasy/purgatory/whatever, but then when Christian wasn't in the coffin, it was like screeeech! Nope, not it at all. The normal everyday stuff was the dream/fantasy/purgatory.
I'm satisfied with the ending. Obviously, there are unanswered questions, but OK. I don't feel like it was a waste of my time. Hey, what would I have done otherwise? Watched Bachelorette or something like that? I still appreciate the care that was put into the writing and production, and how things weren't dumbed down for us.
Sayid should have ended up with Nadia - not Shannon.
I've been thinking about it, and I do agree that it seems as though Sayid should have ended up with Nadia, but maybe Shannon needed to be with Sayid. I know she was a minor character, but she had such a tragic death, and maybe to resolve it she needed to find Sayid again. (I know I'm grasping at straws, but I'm ok with that, lol!)

I still liked the ending. I know there were a lot of dropped threads, but it doesn't cheapen my enjoyment of the series on the whole. I enjoyed the ride and I don't feel like it was wasted time. It was a brilliant show and unlike anything else on television, and I'm glad to have been a part of it from the start.

Vanessa
I can't wait for August when the whole series comes out on Blu-Ray. The commentary is going to be fascinating.

PrairieGirl

Just saw the ending at last. I agree that it was really good. Incredibly moving, beautifully done, and the "they're dead" thing makes sense. And when the dog came to the dying Jack, I just lost it!
I just saw an episode of Crossing Jordan and the bad guy had booked a flight on .... Oceanic Airlines! How funny is that?
OK since NKB shared us her cousins views on Lost. And of course all of her great insights too, by listing 5 good reasons why it was good and 5 good reasons why it sucked.
I thought I would send all of that info to my BBF, who is a die hard Lost fan.
She read it all.
And this is her comments... NOT MINE, LOL
Oh yea we call each other Twin, cause we feel we were separated at birth. Cause of how many things we have in common.
And to some extent, I agree with what she says here. But, I am still irked about not having the mysteries solved. Especially that damn polar bear.
Speaking of which, did anyone see the Jimmy Kimmel special that came after Lost? It was VERY GOOD. If you missed it You can find it on ABC.Com
OK here is my BBF's take on Lost


As for my feelings about LOST. No, everyone dying isn't a happy ending. But anyone who's been paying attention all these weeks knows they were already DEAD and have been all along and ergo, why the alternate life and stories we continued to see of everyone. I just meant we got to see everyone again, together and happy and obviously, ready to move on to whatever comes next. Sure, I would love to have had it all just be a bad dream or somehow a miracle happened and when Jack put the rock back into the hole and the light came back that time would turn back and the plane never crash and give us that kind of ending too. I think I did see where they had recorded several different endings - but obviously decided to err on the side of as happy and fulfilling of an ending as they could give us. I would have hated not being able to see Jack and Kate tell each they loved each other or Sawyer and Juliet find each other again. Those were beautiful scenes and all the other stuff - at this point - really didn't matter to me. So yes, I was happy with how things ended and unlike you - no, I guess we can't be twins in everything - I will miss the show. I loved it and I loved all the craziness and questions and yes - in the end - it was all about the characters and how attached I became to them. They are what mattered most to me in the end and nothing more. Smile
WOW! I just watched the final 45 minutes again and cried like a fucking baby throughout.

I guess at first I was really disappointed and didn't want to admit that they were all dead but beyond even that, I was saddened by the show's end. It's over. Gone. Finished. Never again will there be another episode of lost and that's what pisses me off more than anything.

I really liked the ending. I liked how they wrapped it all up - everyone finding each other and coming together.

Of course there are unanswered questions. It wouldn't be LOST if they tied everything into a neat little bow.

I have to say if Matthew Fox and Terry O'Quinn don't get Emmy nominations for their roles, it will be a travesty. True talent.
I still don't get how Ben could ever be a "good guy". He was an asshole power monger the whole time. He killed all the Dharma people. He shot Locke and left him to die and then he strangled him to death. He had Sawyer and Kate caged up eating fish biscuits and moving rocks. I can't even remember all the evil things he did and all the people he killed. And then all the sudden he's not such a bad guy and Hurley makes him the number 2?

I would have liked them to show a little bit of what happened after Jack died with Hurley on the Island and how Ben go the number 2 job.
I totally see where you're coming from. All Ben wanted to do was save the Island. That was his mission from the very beginning - even if he wasn't designated to do so.

I don't consider Ben a good guy. I consider him a lost soul trying to redeem himself.
(05-27-2010 06:53 PM)NKBurlington Wrote: [ -> ]WOW! I just watched the final 45 minutes again and cried like a fucking baby throughout.

I guess at first I was really disappointed and didn't want to admit that they were all dead but beyond even that, I was saddened by the show's end. It's over. Gone. Finished. Never again will there be another episode of lost and that's what pisses me off more than anything.

I really liked the ending. I liked how they wrapped it all up - everyone finding each other and coming together.

Of course there are unanswered questions. It wouldn't be LOST if they tied everything into a neat little bow.

I have to say if Matthew Fox and Terry O'Quinn don't get Emmy nominations for their roles, it will be a travesty. True talent.


Wow, NKB! That's a big turn around from "I just feel empty and cheated - yes, cheated. I feel they cheated us out of a really fantastic ending."

I'm happy you gave it another chance and feel better about it now, because, well, it's nicer to like the ending rather than feeling cheated Smile

I have it on the DVR still, but I can't watch it again yet. All I have to do is think about it and I start crying. And Vincent…fuck! That dog lying down with Jack just damned KILLS me every time I think about it, even while I'm typing this.

I like your thought on Ben being a lost soul trying to redeem himself. I guess even after serving the island well with Hurley for probably hundreds of years, he's still got some work to do, and chooses to stay behind for awhile.

ETA: I just found this: Michael Emerson reveals in an interview that the series DVD set will have an extra 12-14 minute scene showing a bit about what Hurley and Ben got up to in their adventures together as protectors of the island. Hmmm...I bet this DVD set is going to be stupid expensive. I really want the Blu-Ray version.
(05-28-2010 03:56 AM)anastasia Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, NKB! That's a big turn around from "I just feel empty and cheated - yes, cheated. I feel they cheated us out of a really fantastic ending."

Yes, but that goes hand in hand with my feeling about the show ending. I guess I was more upset than I thought.

Plus, when it ended it was 11:30 at night. I watched it live, rather than the next day, and I think that was a mistake. It was way past my bedtime and I was exhausted. I should have watched it the next day like I normally do but I was too eager to find out what happened. Two and a half hours of finale is a lot to take in at one time Smile
The whole show was about redemption, to my mind. I mean, Sawyer was a con man and a liar. He even crushed a tree frog in his bare hand, remember that? But he was a good guy. And Charlie was a drug fiend who even stole from that girl he was dating/conning, just to get drugs. And he also redeemed himself ("Not Penny's boat"). And poor poor Sayid, the torturer, the assassin, who even killed geeky young Ben Linus (oh my, that was shocking!), total redemption for him.
The take home message for me, is that you can change, you can be a better person than you have been, you can alter your course.
Jimmy Kimmel strikes again:

http://www.todaysbigthing.com/2010/05/24
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