(11-22-2009 04:24 PM)PrairieGirl Wrote: [ -> ]NKB -- 
My sister is undergoing similar doubts, but along a different line -- she did GREAT at her last position, and they heaped really big responsibilities on her, which she took on like a champ and performed wonderfully. She decided she wanted something more, and quit her job and headed off to California -- right in the middle of the worst economic downturn in modern history. She's been unemployed since February, and now lamenting that maybe that great job was the best she could do, and why won't anyone hire her, and what good are her amazing skills, etc.
I don't think there's anything wrong with her -- and not with you, either -- but this IS the worst economy since the 1930s. It means people can be a lot more picky, and for stupid reasons, too. My sister was told she didn't get some of the jobs because she doesn't wear makeup - I guess when given the choice between two candidates with equally good skills, they picked the prettier girl.
Depending on who told your sister she didn't get jobs for lack of makeup, she might have a very solid gender bias case. She should find a public legal clinic to help her look into that.
(11-23-2009 01:52 AM)eslbee Wrote: [ -> ]Depending on who told your sister she didn't get jobs for lack of makeup, she might have a very solid gender bias case. She should find a public legal clinic to help her look into that.
This was the private employment agency. I think, actually, the way they phrased it was that she didn't look "put together", and that if she didn't care about herself, how could they expect her to care about the company? Since she has a good suit and a good haircut, she deduced it had to be about the makeup.
(11-23-2009 09:24 AM)PrairieGirl Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2009 01:52 AM)eslbee Wrote: [ -> ]Depending on who told your sister she didn't get jobs for lack of makeup, she might have a very solid gender bias case. She should find a public legal clinic to help her look into that.
This was the private employment agency. I think, actually, the way they phrased it was that she didn't look "put together", and that if she didn't care about herself, how could they expect her to care about the company? Since she has a good suit and a good haircut, she deduced it had to be about the makeup.
I hope if this ever happens again she'll ask for specifics, because I WANNA KNOW!
(11-23-2009 01:19 AM)cassia Wrote: [ -> ]I really urge you to look at the government re-training programs.
You can stay on UI rates for many extra months and get tens of thousands of dollars in training money for a different career.
I've done just that. I have an appointment with a counsellor on Jan 7th to pursue other opportunities that may be out there for me. I'm sick and fucking tired of admin work. It's boring as hell and pays like shit - unless you're and EA to a president of a top company.
The only issue I have with this is if I do indeed embark on a new career, I'll once again be entering the work force with no related work experience which means I'll be at the bottom of the totem pole AGAIN and I'll be starting from scratch.
What to do, what to do...
"The only issue I have with this is if I do indeed embark on a new career, I'll once again be entering the work force with no related work experience which means I'll be at the bottom of the totem pole AGAIN and I'll be starting from scratch."
Well, based on what you wrote I would suggest... If you're going to be paid crap money while doing a hard job, you might as well be doing it with a job that you enjoy! Your current path isn't providing you with that, so you should look at retraining. Just my opinion
Thanks Ziggy. I agree with that totally.
Although it may sound like it, salary is not my main criteria for a job. I've quit excellent paying jobs for less money because I hated the job.
(11-23-2009 01:19 AM)cassia Wrote: [ -> ]I really urge you to look at the government re-training programs.
You can stay on UI rates for many extra months and get tens of thousands of dollars in training money for a different career.
This program is a sham. They do not encourage anyone doing this.
Before the recession they would allow just about anyone into the program but since then, there has been an influx of people who have applied for this program and they just can't handle it.
First of all, in order to qualify you have to have been laid off from an industry that is in trouble such as automotive or manufacturing. In this case, you NEED to have career retraining in order to return the workforce because your experience is no longer required.
Second of all, the waiting period can be six to nine months! So lets say you get a year of EI benefits. By the time you have been approved for the retraining, you only have three months left of EI. You could reapply but this takes a while to be approved as well.
Thirdly, in my case, I have transferrable skills which means I don't require retraining. People who WANT retraining are basically not allowed to enrol. It's reserved for those that NEED retraining. I can understand that. There are only so many dollars to go around.
Also, I qualify for Targeted Wage Subsidy which basically means that when I apply to a company, I let them know that I am collecting EI benefits and therefore, they - the company - can apply to have my wage subsidized by the Government of Ontario. It's supposed to encourage companies to hire unemployed people rather than those that are already employed.
However, I was once again discourage to mention this to employers as it can take up to three months to be approved. This means that if a company does decide to hire me, both the company and I apply to the Government for the subsidy. If / when the subsidy is approved, then the company can hire me. As I said, this could take up to three months to be approved.
So you see, it's all a big fuck show and a scam by the government to make themselves feel warm and fuzzy.
What really bothers me are people who go on the "get back to school and get job retraining" bandwagon to anyone who becomes unemployed. These people are totally clueless about what's involved and the real prospects of getting a job in a new field you have no experience in. I've gone for job retraining a number of times and have all kinds of pieces of paper from colleges and different learning institutions because I used to listen to these "go back to school" gurus-who, by the way, never went back to school for retraining themselves.
What I found is in most cases, employers only want to know about your previous work experience. They don't care what pieces of paper you have. I've had retraining in all kinds of different fields, but I always end up doing what I did before retraining, because that's my work backround and found that to be the same case with other retrained people. Employers know that if you have no experience in a certain field, you'll still need some training, regardless of school training. If a boss has a stack of resumes, they'll weed out the people who have experience in field X, not schooling in X. When I'm looking for work and talk to employers or headhunters, they only ask about previous work experience and ask the standard question: "How many years of experience do you have in X. We're looking for someone with a minimum of 5 years experience in X." It's very diifficult to find something in a new field unless your in your early twenties and fresh out of college who hasn't had a chance, due to age, to get his/her feet wet in the working world.
As for Targeted Wage Subsidy, I can see employers shying away from that because employers feel it would involve a lot extra paperwork, they don't want more government involvement in the business and if an employee doesn't work out and they fire him/her, they don't want to be asked for an explanation by the government.
The UI program can work for re-training some people.
Here is an example of two people I know that just recently started this same program paid for by the government.
One started in Sept and the other in January
FRIEND 1:
-applied and accepted in less than 3 mths
-unemployed for 8mths
- got $36,000 worth of training expenses paid for at a *private career college*.
- got $780 /mth living expenses
- got a 4 mth extension of UI past expiry date
- got a mileage cost for school and parking fees
- got books paid for
FRIEND 2:
-applied and accepted in less than 2 mths
-unemployed for about 10mths
- got $22,000 worth of training expenses paid for
- got $670 /mth living expenses
- got a 6 mth extension of UI past expiry date
- got a mileage cost for school and parking fees
- got books and laptop paid for
I get that you think the program may not work for YOU.
I would have stood on my head to have about $50,000 to $70,000 of my direct and indirect costs of getting a 2 year college diploma paid for by someone else.
I'm with NKBurlington on the issue of retraining as well. While she is Canadian and they have a different system, the US has something similar as well.
The retraining programs aren't designed for white collar workers at all because they are mostly descended from the 70s when the Far East was taking all the manufacturing jobs from the US. In almost 40 years the mindset hasn't changed. It's all about taking factory workers and putting them in a slightly different factory. The system isn't designed to deal with any sort of white collar worker at all because after all, isn't typing the same everywhere?
I saw a program offered at a community college which would have been perfect for me since it was a fast track accounting associate's degree program that would have been half completed since I already had a bachelor's in philosophy. No go through the state because my skills were transferable even though a few thousand dollars and a year would have meant that I'd be more employable.
In the US they even have a program for "non-traditional" workers by gender. I was in a paralegal program and thought that I could get some free training this way since paralegals are overwhelmingly female. Apparently this government program only applies to females because the response when I inquired was definitely "don't call us we'll call you".
So instead of getting potentially useful training to make me employable they'll give me two extensions and have me sitting around doing nothing instead. It's a poor system and something should be done, but I don't know what.
(02-26-2010 06:36 PM)Dog Holliday Wrote: [ -> ]What really bothers me are people who go on the "get back to school and get job retraining" bandwagon to anyone who becomes unemployed. These people are totally clueless about what's involved and the real prospects of getting a job in a new field you have no experience in.
You're right. I think we all remember what it was like trying to find a job fresh out of school.
You can't get a job without experience and you can't get experience without a job.
What I really loved hearing was an interviewer saying "Oh well I see you have experience doing tech support but you don't seem to have a degree in computer science" when I worked side by side with Comp Sci majors who needed help with a simple login prompt.
Ugh.
I had two interviews yesterday in Mississauga with two different placement agencies (I know, I know - I said I would never deal with agencies again but I got suckered in). I had to be there by 8:30am which is rush hour. It took me an hour to get there.
Both jobs sounded very good and promising.
The first interview was awful. I hated the woman right off the bat and I totally sucked at the testing, which BTW, I had to go to my friends place of employment to do because the tests are not MAC compatible. The tests took over two hours and they included MS Word (55 questions) MS Excel (55 questions), MS Outlook (30 questions) and a typing speed test. I only got 60% on the Outlook and 63% on Excel. I did OK with Word at 78% and scored a low (for me) 73 WPM typing. I can do better - on all fronts.
Anyway, when I arrive for the interview the woman was all over me. I won't go into details but lets just say I thought she was a total Bitch. Afterwards, she says that the job I originally applied for "has been put on hold". DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES I'VE HEARD THAT BULLSHIT LINE? Fuck off and die! I mean really, what the fuck is wrong with these people that they make me do all these fucking tests, get all dressed up, drive an hour only to be told the job is not available. Fuck you!
She said she would resend me the tests as well as tutorials so I could up my scores. Um...no fucking thank you. I'm done with you bitch and I never want to speak to you again.
Can you tell I'm angry?
The second one went a bit better. I was to take the exact same tests I did the previous day at the other agency but when I showed him my test results, he suggested I just do the ones that I didn't score well in so I did. Nonetheless, I was there for over two hours but did improve my scores from the previous day.
That job I applied for is still available and it sounds good. He said he wanted to forward my resume to the client right away. I called him late yesterday afternoon but have not heard back from him yet. Another lost lead? Who knows.
Fucking agencies. Never. Ever. Again. I don't care how good the job sounds.
/Rant
One other thing:
This first lady asked me if I'd be open to contract work - 6 months to a year. I said no, I prefer permanent. She asked why and I said because I don't want to mess with my E.I. and then have to go through all of this all over again in a year.
She basically said I was nuts not taking advantage of contract work because it keeps me in the workforce, keeps my skills up to date and makes me look more desirable to potential employers. She said that she would have trouble presenting my resume to her clients if I haven't worked in six months. They would ask "why isn't she working?" Um...because there is a recession you fuck wad.
I'm not stupid. I know she wants me to consider contract work so she can make herself look good and get her commission and get me off her books.
If I didn't have E.I. benefits, then sure. I would consider anything but I sure as hell don't want to go through this in a year if I don't have to.
I know exactly what you mean about agencies. I totally hate them too. But after sending out 200-300 resumes with zero response, they are the last resort. I've said so before, that they are pimps who promote legalized slavery and discrimination. They go from company to company saying: "Hire temps who would work for half the money that you pay employees, no benefits and no job security. They can be fired at any time with no warning or reason and have no legal recourse to fight it. What a great deal for your company."
I also had the "working as temp is so good and so much fun" and "so many people prefer working as a temp" BS speech. The small part they leave out in the speech is that it's so good for THEM only, and the people who prefer it is because they prefer it versus the other alternative-being unemployed and having no income.
If a headhunter asked me why I would prefer a permanent job instead of a temp job, I have no problem telling them what I think of contract work and sometimes I tell them what I think before they ask. The last few times that I talked to headhunters about job prospects, my standard question has been; "Do you ever any REAL jobs?" Then there's usually a discussion about what constitutes a REAL job.
Dog, you exactly why the agencies can do what they do. They know that you don't have a choice. You're working for them because you are desperate and as all good capitalists know, it's the law of supply and demand. Agencies suck big time and the phrase "indentured servitude" is definitely accurate. You get no vacation time or sick days, you probably can't afford health care and there is no chance of any sort of promotion or advancement in a career. You're just a cog in a machine to be thrown out at the first chance there is a cheaper cog out there.
Finally! One of those agency interviews has paid off. I have an interview tomorrow with the company represented by the second agency interview I went on a couple of weeks ago.
The agency has provided me with the original detailed job description as well as common interview and behavioural questions.
I don't want to jinx the interview so I won't say the company name but you'll know it when you hear it.
Wish me luck!
Congrats - good luck!!! Let us know how it goes.
NKB, I wish you good luck !!