Yes Anastasia, I'm afraid so. The owner did tell me yesterday that he is surprised no one has shown me how to do certain things and he will take care of that situation. Whatever.
BTW, this is the same man who hands me a list of employee names and their titles and asks me to create an organizational chart (for the big wigs that are coming in next week) and doesn't put my name on it. I am not on the org chart! like, WTF is that all about? You ask me to do this and you don't even include me on the chart? What the fuck ever. I guess I really don't matter.
A couple of days ago, my boss sends me an email and hands me some documents. Says we need to change waste management companies because this one is too expensive and they have some unscrupulous ways of doing business such as writing on a contract after it has been signed by the owner.
So, I ask if I can come and see him to get some more details before I call them and his response was "No. I"m sorry. I'm too busy and I really shouldn't be doing this at all. You can figure it out. This will be a good test for you."
A TEST! A test of what? How I can humiliate myself by calling a company and trying to get out of our contract without having all the details? I really, really don't enjoy being made a fool of or having people think I'm a fool.
I'm not an idiot. I'm a very smart and savvy person. I don't need a "test".
So anyway, I called the company and complained that there was some handwriting on the contract after it had been signed. She said that their legal department said it's perfectly OK to write on the contract in the "For Office Use Only" section of the contract AFTER it has been signed because it's well, for office use only.
So, I made a note of that and left it on my boss's desk who has been too busy to look at it.
(02-12-2011 11:20 AM)NKBurlington Wrote: [ -> ]BTW, this is the same man who hands me a list of employee names and their titles and asks me to create an organizational chart (for the big wigs that are coming in next week) and doesn't put my name on it. I am not on the org chart! like, WTF is that all about? You ask me to do this and you don't even include me on the chart? What the fuck ever. I guess I really don't matter.
This reminds me of the time I was the entire art department alone for a monthly music magazine in New Orleans, with subscriptions being sent all over the world. Sounds impressive, right? I was paid a pittance, and I put together the entire magazine in 48 hours up to the printer's deadline each month because no one would bother to give me content until then. They gave me the title "Art Director," to appease my ego a little bit, but one day I unexpectedly walked into a meeting they were having about that month's cover. That's when I found out they had monthly cover meetings and didn't invite me. I learned that the boss/owner didn't want me involved in any of the creative meetings, yet she called me the "Art Director." They all had a horrified look when I walked in, it was in the boss's office, her door was closed, I had to go tell her something and just walked in and saw all the writers and the freelance photographer. That's when I found out my input for anything involving the look of the magazine was neither wanted nor needed, I was just another low-paid lackey in the office that she talked about in a shitty way when I wasn't around. I lasted 5 months, 5 issues of the magazine, the entire experience has scarred me for life.
As long as I live, I will do everything I can to avoid working in an office environment again, at least not as a full-on employee, only as a short-term contractor doing one project and then moving on. The mind games, the abuse, and the humiliation are never worth $20,000 a year, and that's the highest salary I've ever gotten. No one respects graphic artists, and yet, without us, nothing will get published.
(02-11-2011 11:11 PM)anastasia Wrote: [ -> ]So when I wasn't trained by the owners of the scooter shop I worked in when I lived in Okie, and then I was "let go" so they could hire someone who knew how to do stuff that I didn't know how to do because they wouldn't show me, you mean that wasn't just some kind of fluke only pertaining to me? This is normal now? Back in the olden days when I worked in offices for companies (1987-2002), I was trained, or at least told what to do in detail. Sometimes it was even written out for me, step-by-step. So no one's doing that anymore? You just have to find your way around in the dark, on your own, and when you fuck up, your co-workers can point and laugh and your supervisors can shake their heads in disappointment? Are jobs nowadays nothing more than setups?
I think that's what's going on now. I had a job interview and the job was not exactly what I did before, but related. I got the impression they didn't want to bother to train me. And they never called back.(maybe it's for the best)
I was reading an article in Dollars & Sense magazine
http://www.dollarsandsense.org
about the so-called skills deficit vs a jobs deficit. They point out a generation ago employers wouldn't expect a reasonably skilled person starting out in a job immediately to be able to do it without training on the job. What is wrong with these employers?
Wow Anastasia, that sucks!
I wish I could get away from the office drudgery but I don't think I can. I honestly think I'm too old to do anything else.
I don't think I can make any money on my photography or writing. I'd like to because it's what I enjoy doing but I don't think it's going to happen.
Quote:I wish I could get away from the office drudgery but I don't think I can. I honestly think I'm too old to do anything else.
I know what you mean. I feel too old also to continue searching for a new path in a new career. I went to college after high school plus I've taken numerous job retraining programs since then, hoping to get into a "real" job that pays "real" wages. But when it came to job hunting after completing a program, the only thing any company/HR people looked at was the work history section of my resume. They didn't care about any training. Sometimes a company would call and ask: "How many years of experience do you doing XYZ?" I would tell them that I'm a recent grad from a program where I have the latest up-to-date training in XYZ. That wasn't good enough. That always wanted someone who had the most recent training plus a minimum of 5 years experience using the latest up-to-date systems. It's a vicious cycle.
Yes, that's in the Dollars & Sense article too. We can only hope someone gives us a chance....OK, I should apply for another job now.
Exactly! Noelle, do you have a link to the specific article? I think it's very important reading for EVERYONE who is not a "fat cat!"
Anastasia, that's horrific, and I don't blame you for how you feel. I actually feel the exact same way, but I stay employed so I can keep a house so I can take care of my cats. I consider it a sacrifice.
Jen M.
(02-12-2011 05:08 PM)noelle Wrote: [ -> ]I think that's what's going on now. I had a job interview and the job was not exactly what I did before, but related. I got the impression they didn't want to bother to train me. And they never called back.(maybe it's for the best)
I was reading an article in Dollars & Sense magazine
http://www.dollarsandsense.org
about the so-called skills deficit vs a jobs deficit. They point out a generation ago employers wouldn't expect a reasonably skilled person starting out in a job immediately to be able to do it without training on the job. What is wrong with these employers?
I've said it before: I don't think it's ever too late. I'm 40, and I still market myself as a freelance writer,editor, and photographer.
I think the REAL reason people shy away from "us older people" is they know we won't put up with shit and that we expect to be paid what we are WORTH.
Jen M.
BC, you're right. People over 40 have been employed roughly half their lives. We've been around the block and know how stuff works. You can't bullshit us because we know the truth, and we won't put up with it. Even though it was a while ago, I found that when I was in the AF, although they had many a system for getting things to work better, if you used them, you were screwed. I used them because I was screwed either way. Hierarchies and establishments and the like don't want to hear from the worker bees.
Thanks for the link, Noelle. Excellent article, and so true!
I became an admin BECAUSE it does not require a college degree. I already HAD the skills to be an admin, and of course I still do. The problem is that, no. I'm not going to have the skills to do the job the way YOUR COMPANY wants me to. That's where training is required, and companies just don't want to do that.
I don't really understand why. You'd think they'd WANT people to succeed, so that there would not be churn or turnover.
Whatever.
Jen
I applied for a great opportunity at a good company (listed in the top 10 employment cultures in Canada). I submitted my resume through a friend of DH's.
I had a phone interview that went well and a follow up face-to-face interview a week later. The HR lady said she didn't really like my resume and gave me tips on how to improve it. I took her suggestions and re-submitted my resume. She still didn't think it was up to par. "I assume that this is not your final copy." Um...OK.
She said she would have called me even if I didn't have an inside source so I'm troubled as to why she was giving me all this resume and interview "advice". She also forgot about a call we had scheduled. I called her at the designated time and she wasn't there. She said she simply forgot.
It's been four weeks sine the face-to-face interview. I submitted yet another resume which my sister (an HR manger) helped me with. She said she'd submit it for me.
During our discussions she said that she was interviewing four people for the position. If there are only four, why doesn't she move all of us forward? Did I not make the cut?
I have to assume that after four weeks +, I have not made it to a face-to-face with the managers that I would be supporting.
Too bad. It sounded like a fantastic opportunity. I have no idea what I could have done differently.
I HATE looking for a job.
Is it possible you misinterpreted the tips she gave you, or were they straight forward and something that can't be misinterpreted? It's odd that she would give you tips to change your resume, then not be happy with the changes she suggested. I never had an HR person or interviewer suggest changes to my resume. The resume was good enough to get you the phone and face-to-face interviews, so why all of a sudden it's not good enough any more?
Stories like this support my theory that books and courses about resume writing and how to conduct yourself at interviews are all total BS. There is no right or wrong way to write a resume or conduct yourself at an interview. The only theory I adhere to is the interviewer knows within seconds or 2 minutes of meeting you if they're going to hire you or not. You have to have that instant chemistry with the interviewer, or it's game over. Same thing with your resume. I've had people look at my resume and say it's fantastic and other people look at it and say it has to have a total make-over because it's full of crap. It's all subjective. If there was an iron clad way to write a good resume and conduct a perfect interview, everybody would be doing it and the unemployment rate would be zero.
Dog's right, it is all subjective, based on nothing standardized, just how the person feels or what the person wants.
Back when I was desperately looking for a TV job in Nashville or Atlanta, I got all kinds of conflicting advice. At the TV station where I worked, people told me to put my video resume on 3/4 inch video tape, which was still the standard then, so I did, and went to an interview in Atlanta. The person I interviewed with there told me that no one puts their demo reels on 3/4 anymore, that I should have used a beta tape, since that was going to be the industry standard soon enough, and if I had I would have made more of an impression. Sigh.
So back to my TV station, copying everything over to beta tapes. Then I went to another interview at a different station in Atlanta, where I was told by the interviewer that I should have given her a VHS tape instead. She said everyone does that now, everyone has a VHS machine in their offices, and they can take tapes home and watch them if they're too busy at work. She handed my "useless" beta back to me and said goodbye.
So back to my station, putting everything on a VHS tape in time for my interview at a cool place in Nashville. I show up for the interview, hand the guy my tape and he says, "What the hell did you do that for? Don't you know how unprofessional this looks? No one uses VHS tapes for their demo reels!!! You should know better than that." Lost that opportunity, too.
What I should have done was have a demo reel in every format and asked which one was preferred for each interview, but I wasn't as clever then at 23 as I am now! I was too busy listening to advice and I didn't have experience.
It was so hard for me to dredge up confidence and that sunny attitude, that real go-getter team-player, serious worker but happy and pleasant bullshit act every time I had an interview. I remember being so desperate that I had try really hard not to break down during interviews, the show I felt I had to put on was utterly exhausting. After all, you're auditioning for a role and you only get one brief chance to make that perfect impression on a total stranger whom you know nothing about. Yay.
Dog is right. I have no idea why she spent so much time with me on the phone and via email. No HR person has done that before. Most couldn't care less.
I agree about the resume. I had people say that it was excellent and eye catching and then this woman tells me it's crap. Who cares? Do you like me enough to move me forward or not?
What an odd experience! I've never had anyone from HR or an interviewer give me resume tips before. Very bizarre.
Looking for a job is complete bs. They act like the job is so terrific and you're going to have all this responsibility and won't it be great, we're a big happy team, then you get there and the picture changes. You're stuck doing menial shit, crucified for every error and the team isn't so happy after all. Geez, do I sound cynical?
ETA - it's not how your resume looks, it's what's ON it! Any employer who is obsessing over the layout or the word choice has a real problem, unless you are going for a freaking design job.
NKB, I highly recommend Ask A Manager-http://www.askamanager.com (or maybe .org.) She's excellent!
Jen M.
I agree CNK. It was indeed an odd experience.
I fretted over this damned resume and for what, I have no idea. Either you like my experience or you don't?
Maybe this was a test and had nothing to do with your resume. If you're looking for a job in admin, they might want to see if can follow instructions to write a report or modify an existing report-this being your resume. If you're not an employee of the company, they wouldn't want to give you a company document to modify or update. Did you make other changes to your resume that wasn't mentioned by the HR woman? If so, maybe that's where the "I assume that this is not your final copy" comment came from. Your resume worked to get to that point, so this is the only thing that would make sense (maybe).
That sounds doubtful Dog, but you never know these days.
Dog, whether that's the case or not, it's shitty. Testing should only come after they are interested in a candidate, period.
I'm sick of all the games.
NKB, that company sounds like one you wouldn't want to work for. At the very least, they are probably really disorganized. At the worst, it sounds like they play mind games.
Jen M.