I did a little internet research before asking. I paired up "eating disorder" and "don't like to eat" and sure enough, this pair often came up as an indicator of anorexia.
The background is, we recently met a couple and started hanging around with them. One of them is really emaciated-looking. Her spouse says, (when we make a meal or go out to eat), "Oh, Marcia just doesn't like to eat." Marcia herself complains of being weak and unable to do physical tasks like walking their medium dog or gardening.
I honestly never met anyone who "doesn't like to eat" who didn't have a problem. I think healthy, and overweight people DO like to eat. I like to eat TOO much, myself. Is this something we might encourage them to investigate further? Should we watch for other indicators of anorexia before we say anything? It's definitely NOT bulimia.
yes, and there's really nothing you can do about it. If it bothers you, stop hanging out with them.
Lindsay Wrote:yes, and there's really nothing you can do about it. If it bothers you, stop hanging out with them.
I didn't think caring was a problem, at least, not as bad a problem as the disorder itself.
Since you seem to have some knowledge of the issue, can you direct me to any sites where I can learn more? There may be some sort of strategy we could use to make them aware without making them feel uncomfortable. I'm not at all sure the spouse IS aware. I don't want to interfere with anyone's free will, nor do I wish to turn my back altogether.
Oh, and the one with the problem? Drinks a lot. Way too much. I can't imagine that anorexia and alcoholism are an efficacious combination.
I agree with Lindsay, cause a person with an eating disorder has to want to get better for themselves. Probably would need counseling. You could always try talking to the spouse who you think might not be aware, but who knows how they would take it...
Dana Wrote:I agree with Lindsay, cause a person with an eating disorder has to want to get better for themselves. Probably would need counseling. You could always try talking to the spouse who you think might not be aware, but who knows how they would take it...
Exactly why I want to compile some information on the issue before I say anything, if I say anything at all. I don't think avoidance (by us of them) is really necessary. I mean, her anorexia doesn't make me anorexic, and her alcoholism doesn't make me drink. But I wonder if the spouse knows, or if she's pretending there's nothing. I did find a site with several indicators I'm going to watch for before I say or do anything else but research. Some I knew, but I wasn't aware of the baggy clothing or the extreme exercise indicators.
Do you ever see her eat at all? If so and she's pushing food around, rearranging it, that's an indicator. Tries to make it look like it's been eaten, or more has been eaten than it really is. I used to do this, like when I didn't want to finish something and I thought my parents would make me, or I feel bad at a restaurant not finishing so I'd try to make it look like there's less on the plate. I don't do it for an eating disorder, but that is a reason people do that.
Look at her hair too... if her hair looks fine/falling out, unhealthy. I'm sure if you google you can find out lots of stuff, just look at the reputable sites like ones that are medical.
Dana Wrote:Do you ever see her eat at all? If so and she's pushing food around, rearranging it, that's an indicator. Tries to make it look like it's been eaten, or more has been eaten than it really is. I used to do this, like when I didn't want to finish something and I thought my parents would make me, or I feel bad at a restaurant not finishing so I'd try to make it look like there's less on the plate. I don't do it for an eating disorder, but that is a reason people do that.
Look at her hair too... if her hair looks fine/falling out, unhealthy. I'm sure if you google you can find out lots of stuff, just look at the reputable sites like ones that are medical.
I have seen her eat, but not a lot. I would say enough to be polite. And the hair, that's a new one! I'll be on the lookout.
For many many many years, I "did not like to eat" and I did not have an eating disorder. I was painfully scrawny, and I was accused of having an eating disorder many times, but there is nothing you can say to convince people you don't have anorexia when they think you do. When I quit smoking, out of habit, I started putting food in my mouth instead of smokes. I still only ate as 'something to do' instead of actually being hungry. I tell you this with all honesty... SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T LIKE TO EAT. It's like some people don't need much sleep. Or some people don't exercise, but feel and look good. Metabolism is part of it.
If you do not want to be judged by what you put in your mouth, I wouldn't judge others by what they do or do not put in their mouths.
MHO.
Jo, I wouldn't be as concerned IF she didn't drink so much on top of it. And if she didn't herself complain about feeling weak and unable to do stuff. But I think the cautions that she may just not be a hungry person are worth considering.
When you didn't like to eat, why was it? Was it not liking tastes, or not enjoying the sensations of chewing. or was it boring or what? If there's anything I don't like about eating, it's preparing and cleaning up. Did all the extraneous activities have anything to do with it?
I don't eat all meals, and some might say that that's strange. I have a very meager breakfast, and sometimes I nibble a few things rather than eat one of the other meals. I don't have any of the problems that you mention, eslbee, I just don't feel hungry so why bother making a meal? I'll nibble on something like carrots and hummus because I feel like I should, but I don't bother to make a full meal when that happens.
Mind you, I also have a fair bit of energy, so I don't suffer from a lack of nutrition on a regular basis. Some people can function properly with more or less sleep, and I can function normally with less food. I quite enjoy eating when I have something special, and will happily take the time.
Is she vegetarian? Protein tends to directly affect strength, and energy, and that sort of thing. Some vegetarians do a good job of getting protein from other sources, and some don't. Even if she isn't vegetarian you might broach the subject with the suggestion of improving her nutrition rather than suggesting that she eat more. Or she could visit a nutritionist. I wouldn't do this randomly, but if she is always complaining about not having enough energy then this might be a good start? I don't know. In general I would suggest leaving it alone, because you can't change someone's eating habits unless they want to change.
Ziggy, no, she's not a vegetarian. I think next time she complains about the dog, which is all the time, I may ask if she's getting enough protein, at least as much as the dog!
I had a friend whose husband was like that - he was underweight and had to force himself to eat. I remember being over at their apartment and seeing her remind him it was time for his snack. He begrudingly ate 2 or 3 Fig Newtons and a glass of whole milk, not because he wanted to eat, but because his doctor had told him he needed to. To a person like myself who loves food way too much, the concept of not liking food is foreign and incomprehensible, but apparently there are folks who just don't like to eat. It's entirely possible that your friend's wife genuinely doesn't like to eat and isn't trying to cover up anorexia.
Wonder Woman, I know that's true, which is why I plan to observe with my mouth shut for a while longer, maybe forever. As always, working out what to say and how to say it is a demanding sort of exercise.
I get the feeling from the responses here (in general) that people think I'm going to jump in with both feet and start shouting directions. Don't worry; I have no such intentions. Otherwise, why all the research, observation and requests for input from others who may know more than I do?
eslbee Wrote:Jo, I wouldn't be as concerned IF she didn't drink so much on top of it. And if she didn't herself complain about feeling weak and unable to do stuff. But I think the cautions that she may just not be a hungry person are worth considering.
When you didn't like to eat, why was it? Was it not liking tastes, or not enjoying the sensations of chewing. or was it boring or what? If there's anything I don't like about eating, it's preparing and cleaning up. Did all the extraneous activities have anything to do with it?
I drank like a fish throughout my scrawny years. I subsisted on beer and sickarettes, I'm sure. LOL I was not living a particularly healthy lifestyle, but nor was I anorexic.
I was not often hungry. And when I was hungry, MOST foods upset my stomach. It had nothing to do with food preparation, although I was lazy in my younger years, and didn't cook much for myself. But even when we ate out and the food was prepared for me, I ate very little. I vividly remember on my parent's 25th wedding annivesary we went to an all you can eat Chinese buffet and I ate white rice and had a sickarette. Being a vegetarian eliminates more than half the foods, and I'm allergic to/intolerant of many other foods, including peppers, so that rules out tons more. It's hard when you have a finicky stomach... you tend to eat bland things you know won't set off the pain. So I'd have a piece of toast or maybe some soup with noodles. Like really, I don't know how I lived. Sure enough, I was tired and weak A LOT of the time, but I had no frame of reference whatsoever because it's how I'd always eaten. I'd always felt that way.
Again, like I said, talking to someone about their supposed undereating habits is the same as talking to someone about their overeating habits... fundamentally, none of your business. Skinny people know they are skinny. Fat people know they are fat. Alcoholics know they drink too much. They don't really need anyone to point these things out to them.
ALSO one more thing. Here is some food for thought. Maybe she has cancer. Maybe she has a thyroid problem. Maybe she has anorexia and is working hard with a therapist to overcome her problems. Maybe her medical problems have got nothing to do with you.
Sorry I was so quick and short with my answer, it was late and it was right before going to bed. I didn't mean to imply that you didn't care, obviously you do since you took the time to post on the board.
I would hate to see you spend tons of time and energy trying to help this woman only to have it backfire in your face.
Getting a person with an eating disorder to get help is the same as getting a drug addict to get help. It's an uphill battle that can really only be solved with the person decides for themself that they need help.
Anorexia and Bulemia are not diseases in themselves but rather they are coping mechinisims(sp?). They are in the same class of disorders as over eating, drug addiction, gambling, stealing, and alcoholism. It is quite common for anorexics to have these other disorders, or to cycle through disorders.
I will do a bit of research and get back to you.
Lindsay Wrote:I will do a bit of research and get back to you.
Lindsay, that would be so cool. I'm not planning to say anything to anyone except my spouse until I know more about her and the situation. If I ever get that far, I think the dog would be a good lead-in.
I also thought about the role of her spouse as unwitting enabler. My mother was an alcoholic and, although I didn't move out until I graduated from college, I never got it that she was a drunk until I came home on leave. So it could be the better half doesn't know, either accidentally or on purpose.
Jo, I'm absolutely convinced, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that her medical concerns have nothing to do with me. After all, our association is brand-new. I didn't get in on the ground floor. But I care anyway. So sue me.
I'm a person who loves to eat -- too much! -- and so I'm overweight. But last year, when I had my wisdom teeth out, and was told not to chew anything for 6 months, things changed. Eating was BORING! Having to slice meat into tiny suckable-but-not-swallowable-and-choke-to-death bits took forever, and the meat got cold and awful. The time it took to squish food against the roof of my mouth with my tongue before swallowing meant meals dragged on and on and on. I bored people around me who were ready to get up from the table, and I was bored myself after just a few bites. I lost 23 lbs (YAY!).
But I can see how, for some people, the act of eating might be boring, having experienced a taste of it myself. And if you're bored with something, why do it? Aside from the fact that one needs to eat in order to survive, of course.....
But I agree with others that, while educating yourself is always valuable, there will be nothing you can do that won't make you seem an officious, nosy, busybody. She is what she is. If she's truly anorexic, her problem isn't with food, but with herself -- anorexia is slow, socially acceptable suicide. No amount of self-education -- unless you're a psychiatrist -- will give you what you need to help her with her problem.
So, is it okay with everyone if I just get up to speed on the condition in the unlikely event that assistance ever becomes appropriate? Or should I have my brain flushed? I wouldn't want to be a good listener, or in any way empathetic, would I?
I think I've noted anough times by now that I have no intentions of rendering an obnoxious diagnosis and stepping in to take over their lives that I can stop defending myself on that point. I certainly welcome any helpful information anyone can share, but I think the time for chiding me that I have no business caring about these people, and/or learning about eating disorders, is over.
No one is saying don't be empathetic. You can care about people and still remain detached from their addictions or weird behaviours or medical diagnoses. Ask any AlAnon member or NarAnon. Lots of people love people with addictions, and can 'detach with love' as they say. You can care about someone and know NOTHING about their problems, because they may choose not to share that information with you. There seems to be a weird social acceptance of people discussing and concerning themselves with other people's weight when they wouldn't concern themselves with other people's cholesterol levels, whether or not they get migraines, sexual dysfunction... whatever.
Consider this -- LOTS of anorexics are either obese or 'normal' sized. In order to starve yourself down to a skeletal size, you had to start somewhere. Let's say you started starving yourself at the weight of 250. By 180, people are probably telling you you look fantastic, and congrats on the weight loss. By 130, you are getting NOTHING but compliments. Meanwhile, your starvation behaviour is EXACTLY the same as if you were 88 pounds and you are trying to get down to 60. The behaviour is the problem, not the size you are. But casual observers cannot seem to see this, they only see the exterior. Your friend might have previously been 88 pounds and she's up to 100 and on the mend. You have no idea.
There is a movement called "Heath at Every Size" or HAES, and some interesting stuff has been written over the years about how other people really feel it necessary to concern themselves with or talk to the ultra fat or the ultra thin about their bodies. Over the years, I've just noticed how strange it is. People, generally speaking, would never think to replace the phrase "I think she might be anorexic, what do I do?" with "I think she might have heart disease/fatty liver/gout/bad breath/premature grey hair/knock knees... what to I do?" It just strikes me as odd that people feel like this is the one thing that they can presume is their business. They feel that they can take one look at a human being and make judgments about their health. I read a story once about a woman who was 330 pounds and got NOTHING but speeches from supposed 'friends' who kept telling her how unhealthy she was. She was, in fact, as healthy as she'd ever been in her life -- under a doctor's supervision and was down in a healthy and safe manner from 500 lbs. She was exercising in moderation every day and eating well.
See what I'm saying?
So let's say she is exactly what you think she is -- an alcoholic anorexic. Now what? Let's say you educate yourself about these disorders, and you find out (exactly what we've been telling you) that there is nothing you can do about other people's addictions or disorders. If she every approaches you as a friend and says "I think I have a problem, can you help me" -- then I suppose you could get involved. In the meantime, is she someone you really want to be friends with AS SHE IS? She could theoretically be like this for the rest of her life. Her spouse may like having a needy girlfriend, and might enjoy being a codependent relationship. Who knows.
IMHO, eating disorders are one of the most difficult diseases to treat or cure.
Personally, I'd probably find it hard to be really close with someone who is emaciated and "doesn't like to eat." I could be a casual friend, but not a close-close friend. I've got way too many of my own issues with weight to go down that road.
One of my co-workers (60yo) is emaciated. She doesn't even need a bra - her shoulder blades stick out like a concentration camp victim. During the 8 hours she's at the office she either eats nothing at all or one 100-calorie yogurt. YUK!!! But at least she has energy, unlike your Marcia.
Anorexia has a very high mortality rate - about 10%, which is higher than most other mental illnesses. Almost all anorectics don't want help at all - they love what they are doing. I'd steer clear.