I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I've been married for a little over 2 years. To be honest, things have never been very good. My husband has a history of depression and refuses to get any help for it. I've tried to convince him to, but he won't do it.
We moved to Michigan from the west coast almost 2 years ago to be closer to our families. Actually, it was really to be closer to MY family because he really couldn't care less about his. He's hated it here ever since (although to be honest, he wasn't exactly happy in Oregon either) and doesn't hesitate to tell me how much he hates it. Our relationship has deteriorated, and I'm emotionally exhausted from dealing with his roller coaster of emotions. Our sex life is non-existant, and half the time he sleeps on the couch (although he says it's because I snore).
I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I've reached my breaking point and I want it to be over. I've been talking to a counselor through my employee assistance program that is helping me work on it a bit. My hesitation comes from the fact that he is recently unemployed (as of 2 weeks ago). He really kind of brought it upon himself. He left a good paying job that he hated to take a MUCH lower paying job that had better long-term potential. After 2 weeks at the new job they let him go because it "wasn't a good fit". He's looking for work, and may be able to collect unemployment, but we're not sure yet.
I have horrible guilt over wanting to end it now. He literally has nothing if I leave. Almost everything is in my name, and I can forsee him just saying "f@#k it" and leaving me with everything so that he can blame me and hate me for taking it all, and so that he can leave free and clear. I know that I could fight that and force him to split things (including the debt), but in all honesty, I'd be fine with taking it all on to make things easier and faster.
I think on some level he knows it's going to happen, but I think it would still come as a big shock to him for me to say that my mind is made up and I want a divorce. So what do I do? Do I suck it up and wait until things are a little better for him? I do still care about the guy, I just can't be married to him anymore. I don't want to ruin him, you know? I'm also worried that he's going to say he'll do anything to make it work, he'll get help, etc., etc. but honestly, that wouldn't change my mind. How do you stand your ground?
Ugh! This whole situation is so stressful! I have barely been sleeping, and I get a crushing feeling my my chest every day on my way home from work (gotta love anxiety!). It's exhausting, and something is going to have to happen soon. I just don't know what. I've started doing some preliminary research on divorce in this state and what I might be able to do about housing. (Thankfully we rent an apartment. It would be so much harder if we owned a house!)
I know this whole message is a little garbled and such, and with any sort of thing like this, it's also way more complicated than I can type in a few paragraphs. I guess I just wanted to get some opinions from some of you on your take on it. You're all so insightful, and I could really use some other opinions right now. All of my friends and family think I should leave as soon as possible and do whatever I need to do to make that happen, and that there's no point delaying the inevitable. As much as I would love to do that, I also feel some personal responsibility to make it as easy on him as I can (not that it will be, I know, but still...).
Thoughts?
Thanks all...
Vanessa
(((Vanessa))) - I wish I could be more helpful, but - Hockeyhound and WonderWoman can both be great resources for you - they've been through this. Also artgirl, who went through this recently as well. Neither of them check in here much - but we can alert them about this thread.
I'm so sorry this is happening for you. I feel terribly for you - it sounds hard.
Jim (DBF) has struggled a LOT with guilt over his pending divorce - it's his primary emotion. It's tough - but you really have to do what's right for you.
I'm glad the EAP is helpful - they can be terrific. Hugs. I'm sure others will have great advice here.
I don't have much, I would keep talking with the counselor as well. Even if at times it doesn't seem enough, at any time it could really put a new perspective on things, or just make you feel a little better even if you don't really notice it asap. It's good to talk things out.
What all is in your name? You said no house - the car? Would he have anywhere to go? Would he be homeless? Could you split any savings?
At the same time, you can't cure him, and you aren't to blame. So you should be able to move on with your own life, and there is nothing wrong with that. Do you have game plan, like a place to go, a job, etc? I guess if you stay in the same city you do have a job.... I guess you could pay a couple months advance rent to help get him on his feet while you go elsewhere, but I'm not sure your situation on that and the affordability. I'm sorry you are feeling that way though. Keep us posted....
We currently rent an apartment, and both names are on the lease. I can't really afford it alone (even if we were staying together, it would be a problem in the near future due to the cost and his job situation). We own two vehicles that are both in my name. One is paid off, the other isn't. He has a couple of credit cards that are just in his name, but the amount owed is low. We have a few thousand in stocks that he could probably liquidate and live on for a bit if need be, or to move or whatever. We don't have much in savings (less than $1k). We both have student loans that we brought to the relationship...those are easy to split. There are 3 major credit cards in my name though that have high balances. One of them he is an authorized user on, but it's not a joint card. His credit sucked when we got together, so when we got that card he didn't use his info to try to qualify for it. The other 2 cards were mine before the marriage, and one is actually a closed account that we're trying to pay off. Some of the debt on those 2 cards was mine before hand, but some was accrued during the marriage (and all of the balance on the shared card). Much of it was due to the move 2 years ago and furnishing the apartment.
Those would be the things to split. I could keep everything, debt and all, in theory. I have a decent job, good insurance, good retirement plan. I have friends I can stay with if necessary. A good friend is actually trying to buy a house and is currently trying to get out from under their mobile home. I could basically walk into it for under $1000 and it would be mine. They woudln't really take a loss on it because that is cheaper than them trying to get rid of it any other way. All it would cost me is a few repairs and around $500/month in lot rental. So that is my first plan of where to move, but there are plenty of decent apartments around here too if that woudln't work out. I dont' know where he would go though. He could move back to Oregon, but I don't know if he would do that. He hates Michigan though, so I don't know why he would bother to stay. He constantly says how much he dislikes it here and complains about how he has no friends.
Vanessa
Maybe if he knew you were this unhappy, he would go to counseling with you. Sometimes the threat of losing everything is enough to motivate some people to change. Since you haven't told him outright, I'm sure he knows you are not happy with him, but he may not realize you've reached the point of divorce. You could have counseling with the intent of creating a "good divorce," which could make things easier for him and also give him some time to get himself together.
Crap. We just ended up having a conversation I wasn't really planning to have yet.
He didn't take it well at all. I told him I was strongly leaning towards us going our separate ways. He kind of freaked out and shut down for a few minutes. I really thought I was going to have to call someone. Then he snapped out of it and we talked some more, but I'm really worried about him. I got the number for an emergency psychiatric service from a friend just in case. The next couple of days are going to be really difficult. I really wasn't planning for this...
Vanessa
Vanessa - considering he has had these problems since before you met, there will never be a 'good' time to deal with it all. And you can only look out for yourself and your well-being. He is an adult and needs to step up and care for himself. You are not responsible.
I don't have any wisdom right now, except I know from experience divorce is very sad, it's like the death of this entity you and your spouse created together; "The Marriage," as if it has a life of its own, and divorce is its death. I'm sorry you're having to go through this.
I agree with Ozarkmoon. Even though depression is serious, you can't "cure" it by staying for him. He is going to have to want to get better himself. Staying around cause you feel bad probably won't help either. Unless you still love him and think it could work out, but from what you've said you've already realized that isn't going to happen. Sounds like you have a good plan at least.
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate your kind thoughts and insights.
This whole thing started yesterday because my counselor had told me that I shouldn't pretend to be happy if I'm not and that I should tell him so if he asked. Well, he asked. He never really said "something is obviously wrong, we need to talk about it". He just just kept asking if I was "ok". So I finally said that I wasn't. I told him I wasn't happy and that I was trying to work out what that meant for me. Naturally he couldn't leave it at that, so I told him I'd been feeling this way for quite some time. He admitted that things hadn't been good for a while, but he was surprised to hear that I was to the point where it might no longer be fixable. He ran through all the emotions. First he was angry, then he was pleading, then he shut down completely, then he snapped out of that and went on to pretend everything was peachy. (Which proves my theory that this last week or so where he's been all chipper and such is nothing more than an act.) Then he told me to just let him know what I decide or what I need him to do. He offered to go get help if that would make a difference. I told him he should do that either way because he has serious depression and he's not dealing with it at all.
So I really don't know what to do now. I thought about trying to get him into the EAP counselor with me like Dune67 said. Maybe if he got talking it would help him through it, even if the outcome isn't what he wants it to be. But I don't want him to go in there with false hopes either. I don't have another appointment until Friday, but I'm trying to get in sooner if I can so I can get her opinion on it.
Vanessa
Okay, everyone here has been emotionally supportive, so I'm going to concentrate on the practicalities. Here are my thoughts:
1 -- In addition to seeing a counselor, you should also be seeing a divorce lawyer. Like any other financial proceeding (and divorce is a financial nightmare, and I see the seeds of terror in things you've written), it needs to be carefully planned. You MUST know what kind of laws you are up against in Michigan, and how his status will affect you. For example....
2 -- He needs to get a job before you file. If he's unemployed, YOU might pay ALIMONY!!!!! Since the cat is out of the bag (about your wanting a divorce), you may want to consider backing off on talk of divorce, and use your fake smiles and fake "honey"s to make him get a job. That is PARAMOUNT! Without him having a job, you will likely pay him alimony, and then what incentive does he have to get a job? This is one reason why you should have seen a lawyer before tipping your hand -- now you don't know whether or not it's wise to play Nice Wifey until he has a job, or if it's wise to proceed full steam ahead with all the financial advice I'm about to give, below. Even if you decide to play Nice Wifey, you are still in grave financial danger -- you have to decide if the threat of paying alimony is better or worse than what damage he can do to your finances. See below.
3 -- I wish to high heaven you had not mentioned divorce yet, without speaking to a lawyer. You have now tipped your hand, and if he believes there's no hope of saving the marriage, he has the chance to do all the things he has stopped himself from doing (stopped himself because he thinks he has your love). Like charging up your credit cards.
4 -- RUN, DON'T WALK to his wallet, or to any other place of access, and physically remove YOUR credit cards from his hands. Call the credit card where you have allowed him to be an authorized user, and remove his name. Cancel any joint credit cards. You don't want him running up more debt. And don't think he won't do it -- put yourself in his shoes. What will he do if you leave? -- forget the depression, and think financial. If he wants to get back to Oregon, how is he going to do it? (he needs money, he has no job, but he has credit cards he can take cash advances on, or charge a plane ticket, or use to make a down payment on a car for himself, etc). If he needs a place to stay, he needs money. If he needs a car, he needs money. From your statements above, it appears you -- and your credit -- are the only source of money for him, other than liquidating those stocks. This is a moment where I wish you had not tipped your hand, because now time is against you. Yes, I know -- you are thinking he wouldn't POSSIBLY do that to you -- all women think so, until they get the credit card bill and it's too late. He may already be charging on the cards, as his exit strategy. It may already be too late.
5 -- If you have joint banking, cancel that and move to separate accounts. You can be fair and give him half of what's there, or take it all and let the judge tell you later that you owe him half. As to the latter, that's the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" thing. But if you want him to begone, giving him his half now can go a long way toward helping him skedaddle. Don't wait for him to clean you out, and then you're the one wondering where your half is -- YOU be the one to act.
6 -- Again, thinking of how you want this to play out. If you want him to begone -- as in, move back to Oregon and never bother you again -- you need to consider (with the help of your attorney!) how to make that happen. For example, giving him the car that is paid-for gives him a way to (1) get to job interviews and ultimately a job, and (2) get out of Michigan and move two time zones away. DO NOT give him the car that still has a loan in your name! -- an unemployed depressed guy in denial about both (plus his divorce) will not make the payments, and you can kiss your credit score buh-bye.
7 -- Use your morning break time to call a divorce attorney, and see if you can't set up an appointment over your lunch break -- TODAY! You really can't much act on any of the above (except removing him as authorized user on that card, which if you change your mind later, you can always tell him was some banking error, "damn credit cards!") without sound strategic advice from a lawyer.
Good luck to you, Vanessa. As others have pointed out, divorce is emotionally messy, but also financially messy. You stand to lose a lot, because you have everything, and he has nothing -- and now that you've tipped your hand, he now has nothing to lose.
Good luck, Vanessa. I have no words of advice except "hang in there! We are here to listen."
ozarkmoon Wrote:Vanessa - considering he has had these problems since before you met, there will never be a 'good' time to deal with it all. And you can only look out for yourself and your well-being. He is an adult and needs to step up and care for himself. You are not responsible.
ITA. There is nothing you can do to help a mentally ill person who doesn't want help and is refusing treatment.
Thank you for the practical advice PG. I know that is something I need to hear as much as anything. I did contact a lawyer yesterday, but they have not responded to my inquiry yet. I'm thinking I'll maybe need to find a different one. (The original one came from a trusted recommendation, so I was most interested in that one.) I've been asking around, but haven't gotten any other solid recommendations yet.
I'm trying to consider housing options and such. My parents are also well aware of what is going on and are willing to help me finanically if I need it (ie. security deposits, etc.), so that is reassuring.
I haven't heard a thing from him yet today. He posted a couple of Facebook status updates last night like "numb..." and "lost..." and he also posted a couple of sentances on his blog saying he was done, then he deleted the whole thing. He hasn't posted anything since (he usually updates often). That sort of thing makes me really worried. I have no idea what I'll be coming home to tonight.
Vanessa
Hey I have no words of advice for you. But as someone who is also contemplating divorce, I can give you some *hugs*.
Thank you all for being so supportive! The level of caring and empathy on this board has never ceased to amaze me.
jeaniemarie, I'm sorry to hear that you're in a similar boat. I think that the ambivalence is the hardest. Once you accept your choice (whatever that may be) then at least you can move forward with it. It's the being in limbo that is the most difficult.
I got a text from him late in the afternoon today (apparently that is how we're communicating now - almost exclusively) that said he was going to his parent's house for the weekend to give me some alone time and some time to think. Apparently his sister is coming to get him (I'm not sure why he isn't going to drive himself though.) on Thursday. I personally think he's also going to use it as a fact finding mission of sorts and see what kinds of options he might have there for work, etc. I'm glad he's going. I think it will be good for both of us.
I spent the evening having a pizza and movie night w/ some friends, and he sent me another message while I was there saying that he was going out with a friend and that he'd likely crash over at his house. So I guess we're avoiding one another for now it seems. I'm ok with that honestly. It was nice knowing I wasn't going to come home to more questions and brooding and glaring looks.
Vanessa
Vanessa -- that sounds very good! I wish my ex had avoided me -- instead he wanted to confront, rehash, and/or get his "fuck for the road" at almost every opportunity. I had to use Spring Break to pack, so I could get out of there as quickly as possible. My Dad or my Uncle came by most evenings and glared at him until he decided he'd rather go out to a bar. That at least allowed me to pack and go to bed in peace, and lock the bedroom door without starting an argument. I was out in three days.
I slept better last night than I have in weeks (w/o Ambien at least) because I knew he wasn't coming home. I think that says a lot.
I talked to my parents again last night. I was getting their opinion on a possible housing option. A good friend just got approved for a house. They're currently in a mobile home in a really nice park. It's a long story, but basically they're willing to pay off most of it (thanks to Obama's $8k tax incentive thing), and then give it to me for the remaining amount (about $800). It really works out for both of us because they don't have to come up with the extra cash to pay it in full, and if I assume the mortgage, then I don't have to pay first and last month's lot rent to the park. I can just walk into it. Then all I pay would be lot rent, which is WAY cheaper than an apartment and I would own the home. The place needs some repairs, but nothing that is overwhelming, and my dad can actually do a lot of it. The timing is pretty good because they're likely to be out of their place by either August 1st (if all the stars align), or September 1st, which would work out really nicely for me because I could probably re-rent my apartment easily to a student so that I can get out of the lease I'm in currently (that goes until next July). I can't afford to stay where I am by myself for another year, and I don't want to have to deal with a roommate situation.
So anyway...things are progressing. I need to try to find a lawyer though. I'm going to just have to call the original place. I'm just kind of annoyed that they didn't respond to my email, but who knows..it could have easily gotten lost in cyberspace or something.
Vanessa
Consider NOT informing your husband of your housing plans.
It would seem a clean break would be a smart idea, with a mailing address (separate) for any legal/financial matters that need clearing up.
I also agree about taking further steps to protect any financial assets ASAP.
