I'm not going to talk to him about any legal-type stuff until I speak with a lawyer. I'm hoping I can get an appointment this weekend (they have Saturday hours). When my parents found out my husband was leaving for the weekend, they decided they would drive up. I'm hoping they can come w/me to the lawyer because they will definitely think of things I would forget to ask. Not to mention, they may be paying for it to help me out too. (They've never really liked my husband much, so they're more than willing to help me end things with him.)
I kind of hope he comes home tonight so I can find out about the trip to Ohio w/ his sister. I'm curious why he isn't driving himself. She has friends in the area, so it could be as simple as she's going to be in the area anyway. But I think it's more likely that he may be considering staying out there longer than just the weekend and doesn't want to be using a vehicle that is in my name.
I can totally forsee him just wanting to just sign the papers and walk away and leave me with everything. It would suck a bit financially, but I could probably make it work in the long run.
Vanessa
Vanessa, I just want to tell you that you are a really nice person for being so concerned about your ex-husband to be. I think this will bring good karma for you. It sounds like he is talking to his family and that he may actually leave the marriage without being emotionally overbearing. We can all only hope he will agree to separate without too much...you know. Hang in there, be patient. The lawyer will call and the ball will get rolling. Again, you seem like a really nice and smart person who knows that life is too short to live the way you two have been living.
In the past, I kicked out a boyfriend (that I loved dearly, it just wasn't working out) who did not have a penny to his name. I was quite mean and did not listen to his pleas to let him stay just a little longer. Another guy I left when he was diagnosed with type I diabetes. It wasn't the diagnosis, it was bad timing because I was fed up with his juvenile behavior, then came the diagnosis. I went my separate way, in-patient or no in-patient. Of course there were no obstacles like divorce to go through, and so I realize your situation is more serious.
Good luck with the divorce proceedings. I hope it goes smoothly and you get to start over soon.
I just called a lawyer and have a consultation tomorrow evening. Does anyone know of any questions that I should make sure to ask?
Vanessa
1 -- tell him your whole situation, including financial. Include the fact that you moved nearer your people (and he moved away from his). These things can matter.
2 -- ask about having to pay him alimony if he is not working. Mention the depression, too, because health status can also affect alimony.
3 -- ask how to strategize to get out of paying alimony, shedding/splitting/taking on debt, and the best split of assets to make him go away.
4 -- List your assets and debts and take the attorney a copy of your list. Specify which assets/debts are joint and which are individual. Don't forget to mention both his and your pensions/IRAs/401Ks as assets. If one of you contributed more to your retirement than the other, one of you may end up having to pay the other.
Good luck to you!
I would suggest that you be as organized as you can be with all of the information PrairieGirl suggested.
Maybe even somehow mark the most important items by colour-code or with stars.
That short consultant time will disappear FAST.
Take a notepad to jot advice and things that the lawyer will need you to do.
I'm sorry I don't have any helpful advice for you, but please know that I'm really sorry you are going through this. Hang in there.
Just to update a little:
I went to see the lawyer on Thursday. At first I thought it went ok, but the more I thought about it after, the more I didn't like her. I took my 2 best girlfriends with me, and she talked to them more than she talked to me. I also felt like she didn't do a very good job of answering any of my questions. I'm not going to spend $3000 to someone who can't even take the time to thoroughly answer what I've asked. Not to mention, I didn't like her office either. Apparently the 2 owners bring their kids in every day with them to work and they run around all day long. The first thing I was bombarded with when I walked in the door was a kid that was about 4 years old just wandering around. Then the receptionist was running after him (and she was wearing a tank top and flip flops, btw). Not a good impression. The weird thing is that they came highly recommended...
Anyway, so I did a little more research. I called the local legal aid office and they suggested I call my county's legal resource center. They weren't open on Friday, so I'll have to call tomorrow. But the legal aid office said they have a free service where I can do a "do it yourself" divorce and there are paralegals and such there that can walk me through it and help prepare the paperwork. I think that might be my best option at this point because I really don't think my husband is going to put up any kind of a fight. His actions so far have pointed towards him just wanting to get it over with. So if I can do this simply and not have to pay a lawyer, that would be better for both of us I think.
He's supposed to come back home tomorrow. We're going to have to sit down and talk and I'll have to tell him that my mind is made up. I'm not sure what he'll do next. I think he'll move back to Ohio and live with his family for a while. I don't picture him staying here in Michigan. So now I just have to have "the conversation" with him. That will be uncomfortable, but I think he's expecting it. I hope to have things in process soon. I want to be able to move out of this apartment asap and get on with my life.
Vanessa
I had a friend who did her own divorce. It worked out fine. Her husband was a mean controlling abuser to boot.
Update to the update:
So I just talked to him. He called to talk to me about "us" and to see if I'd made my decision. I told him the truth and I was completely honest with him. He was very mature about it and was really open. He really surprised me. I think being home with his family has given him some time to process everything and really think about it. He said he wasn't exactly happy about my decision, but he respected it and he didn't want to fight about it. It was obviously a much longer conversation, but that's more or less what came out of it. He's going to talk to his parents about moving back there for a while until he figures out what he wants to do next. He's still coming home tomorrow, and we have a lot to talk about, but I think it will go alright. I think this will be pretty amicable as long as we can continue the kind of honesty we had in this conversation. He's been through a nasty divorce before, and I don't think he wants to do that again, so he's open to being as agreeable as possible.
I can't tell you how good it feels to have everything out in the open.
Vanessa
I am so sorry to be late to this post and so very sorry your dealing with all of this. But at least, like you said it is finally out in the open and now your stress levels can decrease, and that you can get some sleep at last.
I only hope that your divorce goes smoothly for you and that this is what YOU REALLY WANT TO DO?!
No chance of any reconcilliantion?
Now that he is understanding and willing to get the help he needs?
No chance of remembereing the vows you 2 took just 2 short years ago?
Life is not all pickles & cream you know. People do suffer from depression. It is sad that it took him so long
to seek help. Are you sure its too late to fix things?
Oh well, if not
to you, and yes P.G has great advice when it comes to divorce.
So, your in good hands there.
LISTEN TO PRAIRIEGIRL!
She has some good advice there and you really do not want to screw yourself financially in the long run.
Sounds like he may be relieved too. Maybe on some level he knew the marriage wasn't working.
vanessa915 Wrote:Update to the update:
So I just talked to him. He called to talk to me about "us" and to see if I'd made my decision. I told him the truth and I was completely honest with him. He was very mature about it and was really open. He really surprised me. I think being home with his family has given him some time to process everything and really think about it. He said he wasn't exactly happy about my decision, but he respected it and he didn't want to fight about it. It was obviously a much longer conversation, but that's more or less what came out of it. He's going to talk to his parents about moving back there for a while until he figures out what he wants to do next. He's still coming home tomorrow, and we have a lot to talk about, but I think it will go alright. I think this will be pretty amicable as long as we can continue the kind of honesty we had in this conversation. He's been through a nasty divorce before, and I don't think he wants to do that again, so he's open to being as agreeable as possible.
I can't tell you how good it feels to have everything out in the open.
Vanessa
Vanessa,
I too am so sorry i am late to this thread. I've not been online much lately so ive missed a lot of postings. As you know i recently went through a divorce, so i know what you are going through to some extent. PG definitely has some awesome advice there, and i think you are going about things the right way. Divorce is never easy, but it is easier than spending the rest of your life in a miserable relationship that has no hope. People with mental illness cannot be treated unless they REALLY want to seek out help. It sounds like so far your husband has not wanted to seek out this help, and even if the thought of divorce is making him move, if you were to back down and try to reconcile, i have no doubt he would slide back in to his ways and things would go back to "normal"
Good luck to you Vanessa, we are all here to support you through this most trying time!!!
Joe
Thank you so much for all of the support everyone. You have no idea how much I appreciate it.
The last few days have been interesting. He's been packing up his stuff and is moving out tomorrow. It's been a really long week to say the least. He's been really good about everything and we're getting along well. I think that almost makes it a little bit more awkward though, which I can't really explain to him very well. But I think it's for the best that he's moving out tomorrow and we can both start moving on.
We filed the initial paperwork yesterday. Unfortunately, I think we kind of messed it up. I think we did a couple of the steps too quickly because they threw an extra step in at us. He went with me to the courthouse and I filed the initial papers. Then I turned around and served him immediately so that we could file his signed copy along with his answer right away. It should have been that simple, but then apparently we got assigned a judge that requires mediation (which I'm pretty sure we can get out of). The unfortunate part is that, in reading the paperwork in the mediation packet given to us when we filed, I think we were supposed to submit some of the forms in there with his signed answer to the original papers. So now I'm just really confused about how to fix it. I'm hoping that the resource center will have someone more familiar with divorce cases working on Monday, because the girl there yesterday seemed pretty clueless.
At the very least, the initial papers are filed, and the minimum waiting period of 60 days has begun. So if I can straighten this paperwork thing out quickly then I can hopefully have everything done and official before my 30th birthday in September. (I'm kind of looking at that as my 'clean slate' birthday.)
So that's what has been going on. I'm trying to decide if I want to be here when he moves out tomorrow. I don't think I want to be here. I know he's not going to take anything that wasn't discussed. This whole thing has really been a lot more amicable than I imagined it would be.
Vanessa
Glad things are going smoothly. Do keep us updated.
Hey Vanessa... sorry to hear about this big life upheaval. I just got my final papers last week, after a 90 day waiting period. We split up in May 2008 - it just took us a long time to get our shit together and file the papers.
Does Michigan have divorce mediation? That's what I did with my ex. We had been to counseling for years and I finally gave up. He was very upset initially, but fairly quickly agreed that the unhappy life could not continue and that we could not will it to be happy just because that's what we desperately wanted.
We went to a mediator together and split the cost according to our incomes. She knew everything - things we would never have thought of (and I'm a lawyer) - and she knew which forms we needed and how to properly fill in the blanks. She was also a certified financial planner, which was really nice. It cost a couple thousand dollars, but it was worth every penny. We provided all of the info and she drafted a Memorandum of Understanding. That served as our "separation agreement" and explained to the court that we had worked out a mutual settlement.
We just did things practically. I got the almost paid off car, he kept his paid off car. I kept my student loan debts, he didn't have any. I got 3/4 of the furniture because I have less income with which to replace it. We sold the house and split the profit. We split our last tax refund. We took my name off of the AmEx, I got my own Visa and new bank account. Stuff like that. I took the dogs, he took the cats.
Because everything was in our memorandum/agreement, we were not required to appear in court (we had to sign waivers of appearance). Because we filed jointly, we didn't need to serve each other. Even though you have already filed some papers, you are still in control of what happens in your case. All you have to do is get a blank caption form or a basic motion form, fill out the caption, and write what you want to happen. If you want the court to disregard something that you've filed or postpone something because you are doing private mediation, that's fine, just explain what is going on and be clear about what you would like the court to do or not do.
When you don't have kids, the courts don't care as much. You just submit your info and your agreement, and the judge reviews it to make sure neither person is getting screwed. It doesn't sound like your ex is going to demand alimony or anything like that - although he would be entitled to it. In my case, I was entitled to it, but it was sort of offensive to me - I felt like I just wanted to take care of myself. I did ultimately accept a little "dogimony" to help pay for the dog walker, but anyway, you can agree to divide things however you want.
I'm sorry to hear that things didn't work out. I have "the depression," but I treat it - which makes it much easier, although still not perfect. I hope that your ex will decide to figure out how to live a better life in spite of his depression. It can take a person YEARS to acknowledge that their moods are distorted and abnormal. I think it often takes longer for men to realize this, since they are not socially conditioned to examine/evaluate their emotions - and, worse, they are expected to fix things themselves, which does not work with clinical depression.
Anyway, since I split with my ex (after 12 years), people say I look lighter and happier. I was so relieved to stop TRYING. You'll probably have a slew of emotions over the next year or so. Sometimes it's no big deal, sometimes you bawl your eyes out. Just try to ride it out and remember that each feeling will pass with time.
I'll set up my account to notify me if I get a PM, so if you have questions, please send them my way. Good luck!
hockeyhound Wrote:I'm sorry to hear that things didn't work out. I have "the depression," but I treat it - which makes it much easier, although still not perfect. I hope that your ex will decide to figure out how to live a better life in spite of his depression. It can take a person YEARS to acknowledge that their moods are distorted and abnormal. I think it often takes longer for men to realize this, since they are not socially conditioned to examine/evaluate their emotions - and, worse, they are expected to fix things themselves, which does not work with clinical depression.
He was fully aware that he needed help and meds and such, he just refused to do it. That's where I drew the line. When he and I got together, I knew he suffered from depression and had been on meds. He wasn't on them anymore when we got together, and I believed him when he said he was working through things and that he was willing to go back on them if he felt he needed to or needed more help. Well, things got worse and worse and he freely admitted that he knew they were getting worse and worse, but he flat out refused to do anything about it. That's when I said enough was enough. (Obviously it's a lot more complicated, but that's the gist of it.)
Things are going smoothly now. I had my pre-trial conference and was in and out of there in 5 minutes. She laid out everything for me and told me what I needed to still do and what to bring with me for my final hearing date (which she set for me before I left). I just have a few more weeks to wait and one more signature to get from him and then things will be finalized. Michigan only has a 60 day waiting period if no children are involved, and our date is set for 62 days from the date we filed.
We could have gone the mediation route, but we had pretty much already decided everything anyway. And with him moving out of state 2 days after we filed our paperwork, that would have made mediation harder. We both wanted a clean split. I did take on all the debt (at least that was in my name anyway), but I also kept about 90% of our possessions, including both cars. (He didn't want either of them.) I'm going to be filing bankruptcy because of all this, but there are worse things. I qualify for chapter 7, but will still have to pay off 1 debt since it's joint w/ my mom, but I can make that work.
Things are finally falling into place. I'm moving to a new (cheaper) apartment this weekend and the divorce will be final by the end of the month, and the bankruptcy paperwork will be underway. I feel like I'm getting a fresh start and a new lease on life. I know that there are consequences to the bankruptcy and whatnot, but I'm willing to live with those. I'll turn 30 just a couple of weeks after everything is finalized, and I feel like the timing couldn't be better. I really feel like I'm starting over (in a good way), and doing things the way I want to do them from the start.
Thank you so much for all of your support and advice along the way. The last few months have been crazy, to say the least. I love having this place to come to.
Vanessa
Vanessa, best of luck with all this.
Vanessa - great that you found a new apartment that you can afford and that you've managed to get through this so quickly. Good luck with everything - keep us posted!
Vanessa: Best of luck to you from me, Bob & Boots.
I am sorry you had to go through all of this.
But the bottom line is your well being and sanity. So, hang in there, and I hope all goes well before your 30th. That is a good idea, having a clean slate year. Good luck with that as well